Bob Hoeffner
If something came along, we were brave enough to take all the opportunities that came my way. Almost all of 'em worked out, but 10 Xing is about taking chances too.
Kristiana Corona
Hey, everyone. I'm Kristiana Corona, host of the Worthy to Lead Podcast, and I'm so glad that you decided to join us today. I cannot wait for this conversation. I am thrilled to have someone with me today that has over 50 years of experience as a business leader across a wide range of different industries, including retail, restaurants, music, rentals, technology, and more. His name is Bob Hoeffner, and he also happens to be a friend and mentor of mine. Welcome to the show, Bob.
Bob Hoeffner
Oh, thank you very much. That's very kind. Thanks.
Kristiana Corona
Bob has had an incredible journey that began at the age of 16, supervising food concessions, and he has climbed the ranks of corporate leadership ever since. Mastering everything from team building to strategic planning. He's a franchisor, a former COO. A skilled entrepreneur who has launched five of his own businesses, and one of the last businesses sold for over $73 million. And did I mention that once? He built a chain of 40 rental stores in only 14 months.
I can't wait for you to talk to Bob and to meet him. So Bob now runs an executive development consultancy where he's worked with hundreds of business leaders to help them achieve success, and he's also been married to his wonderful wife, Marilyn, for 49 years, and has three children, all of whom own their own businesses, of course.
So whether you're a seasoned business pro or just starting out, you won't wanna miss the wisdom that Bob is gonna share today. So let's dive into our topic. So I talked about 10 x jumps, and if you're scratching your head and hearing me talk about this 10 x language, what I'm referring to is this excellent book called 10 x is Easier than 2x, and I actually have it right here.
This is by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy. And the premise of this book is that if you pursue ambitious 10 x jumps or tenfold jumps, rather than focusing on doubling your productivity like a two x jump, it's actually surprisingly more efficient and more rewarding to do that when you aim for something that feels absolutely extraordinary.
You're forced to think in a bigger way, to completely differently identify the types of activities that you're doing to really hone in on those and to leverage your unique strengths and not try and do everything. So this ends up leading you to a more transformative path and I think one of the reasons why I wanted to have this conversation with Bob is because he has had many 10 X jumps throughout his career, and so we're gonna be kind of approaching this with some different questions and some different themes that pop up in the 10 x book and kind of exploring some of those stories. So let's dig in, Bob.
Bob Hoeffner
Sounds good. Sounds good.
Kristiana Corona
So one of the first themes that shows up in the 10 x book is this idea of letting go of the 80% to focus on 20% that 2x growth comes from doing more. But 10 x growth comes from doing less and doing it better. So I'm curious, just to kick us off, what is something that you've had to let go of in your journey, whether that's a belief or a habit, or some responsibility that you've had in the past in order for you to have a 10 x jump?
Bob Hoeffner
I've been really, really lucky 'cause I've had a lot of different things. Happened to me, and things that I've tried to make happen in my career, strangely enough, the one that came to mind when I thought about this was something that happened to me when I was a freshman in college. I went to a voter's forum or a forum where there were candidates who were gonna speak about who's gonna be the next president of my freshman class.
It was a really small school. So we're sitting and listening to these three folks talk about what they're gonna do. My roommates, and at that point we had one roommate, and then we had a suite, so there were three other guys. They said, Bob, you should run for president. That certainly wasn't me at that point, especially since it was the next morning. What was the next morning?
Kristiana Corona
Lots of time to prepare.
Bob Hoeffner
Yeah. I didn't have the confidence at that point to think that I could ever win something like that. They pushed me really hard to say. Let's go for it. What's the worst thing can happen? So we created a write-in candidate campaign, and I hit the parking lot the next morning and talked to all the commuters.
We went to the dorms that night and met just about everyone, and we promised them, or I promised them that the only thing I can say today is that I'll listen really carefully to you and represent you as effectively as possible. So the next morning in the parking lot, talking to everybody saying the same thing.
And sure enough, come five o'clock that afternoon, I won in a landslide, in a write-in vote. Oh, small school. Wow. And it was a huge confidence builder for me, too, because I was the geeky, hardworking, high school student who didn't. Participate in the student government, and really didn't have the confidence to think I could ever do something like that if it was planned or not.
It certainly was a 10 x jump comes to mind, and there are many times in between, but the one that comes to mind now is really what I'm attempting to do. I've been a coach, executive development professional, and a strategic planner for the last 10 years, actually getting to be almost 11 years now. And I've worked with and do work with a number of folks typically in a coaching environment an I enjoy it and it's limiting, but I don't have the time that I want to have with my wife, the kids, the grandkids, and to travel as much as I did or as much as I'd like to. So I thought about writing a book and talked to Elaine Acker, a good friend of yours and mine, and as we examined the opportunity to write the book, I just didn't think there was the value there.
I just didn't think I really had as much to share as I would like, and I, of course, I didn't know much about writing books on that. Of course, it was a hurdle, and perhaps I should have jumped over that hurdle. But instead, we decided that creation of courses, specifically a course for franchisees with the expectation that we'd build one later for other small business people getting started, would be a way to really impact a whole lot more people.
And it would cut back the time that I was coaching. Working 10 or 15 hours a week, one-on-one coaching, two times that will just make you work. 30 hours, perhaps you'll make a lot more money, but it's a tremendous amount of work, and it's a tremendous amount of really thinking hard and working hard with your clients, as you know.
So the course is scary because. I have to move away from the coaching responsibility. In fact, I've cut back dramatically by about 75% in the folk I'm working with now to create a course. And oh, by the way, I know nothing or knew nothing six months ago about creating course, about videos, about editing, about the marketing, certainly about the social media.
You name it, I didn't know it and now I'm learning about it. So it's a brave jump at this point.
Kristiana Corona
Oh, it's so amazing. I think one of the pleasures for me has been meeting you. So just so everyone knows, I met Bob at a conference a few months back and we had the best conversation about like, what does it look like to jump into something brand new like this, where it's all this foreign world of digital influencing, right?
And yet you're doing it with boldness, and you're just taking action. And I think how many of us are limiting ourselves and focusing on, well, this is the 80% that I know how to do really well, and I should only stick with that. And you know, you've been an amazing coach or a business leader for so long, like why would you give that up to try something new and different, but you haven't let that stop you?
And I think the narrowing down to that 20% of focus and saying. There's a way to take what I've been doing and be more efficient and scale it, and also still have the impact that you want. I think it's just incredible and shows a great deal of courage, and I have been very inspired by that.
Bob Hoeffner
Perhaps courage, but probably just as, as much foolishness as, uh, as, as one of the things characterized my career is that career, we moved 11 times in my career now it was over 50 years, but if something came along, we typically.
In fact, we weren't typically we, we were brave enough to take all the opportunities that came my way. Almost all of 'em worked out. But 10 Xing is about taking chances too.
Kristiana Corona
Yeah. And I think a lot of us end up in a place of overthinking it and never taking action. And I think that pattern of being able to say yes. Just take a chance. You don't know all the answers. On the other side, it is taking a risk, but you've had this pattern play out in your career of saying yes. Has provided a benefit and leaping before you're ready in a way.
Bob Hoeffner
Oh yes, very much
Kristiana Corona:
So, what's interesting is I was reflecting on this question a little bit and one of the things that I remember having an 80% down to like what does it look like to focus on that 20%?
Having the mental shift of starting my career as a designer and thinking, this is it. This is it. I've made it. I love design. All I'm going to do for the rest of my life is put my nose into my screen and design amazing websites or tools or you know, things like that. And I really thought, honestly, that was the vision.
That was as far as the vision went in my career. And I couldn't imagine at that time anything that would be more fulfilling or more exciting. And then the opportunity. To start leading a team came up just a couple of years in, and I was stuck with this actual dilemma of, do I say yes to a leadership opportunity?
Like I thought my path was this. I was pretty sure that, you know, those were the things that I was good at, and that's where it ended. But I did take a risk and I said, even though I don't have any training, I don't have. Management experience. I haven't gone through HR, you know, leadership trainings or anything.
I'm gonna say yes to this opportunity because there's a spark of learning how to build something, and build something. That is going to have a huge impact. And so there was this moment of saying yes and jumping into that and doing it messy and doing it wrong and learning along the way. That allowed me to fully expand into leading things.
I never thought I would lead, like leading teams across North America and Europe, and building a global marketing business together with. This amazing leader that I had and us like working through p and l challenges and figuring out how to build call center functions and success metrics, and all the things that I learned through that job.
And it just continually stretched me, and it didn't always feel good. Like I felt afraid a lot of the time having to show up in boardrooms and say, I know what I'm talking about for SEO strategies and things like that, but. Every step of the way. I was challenging myself to say like, just because I'm afraid doesn't mean I shouldn't do it.
Bob Hoeffner
Absolutely.
Kristiana Corona
So another theme that comes up a lot is that idea of discomfort. So a 10 x jump, you think, oh my goodness, this 10 x jump is gonna be incredible. I'm just instantly gonna be really good at this. And that's not often how it feels. Right. So, the 10 x schools are emotionally and psychologically transformative is what the 10 x book says.
So it really demands this entirely new version of you. So I'm curious to hear about when was a moment that you were scared or you felt wildly unqualified, but you chose to say yes. Anyway,
Bob Hoeffner
So that's happened often, and it's, you know, we'd be hours here talking about all the times this happened in my career.
Bob Hoeffner
My degree was in biology. And yet the first thing I did after meeting my wife was to go into the restaurant business and move into a business position or a leadership position. With no training at all in that area? Yes, I spent some time in high school supervising restaurants, but like you, no background in that, no HR, no finance, no accounting, none of that stuff.
So that was certainly scary. But I think so much about leadership is not about the thing that you're supervising or leading. It's working with the teams. So there were, and still are a lot of things that I don't know much about, but especially today, the tools are there and other folks are there to help you learn it.
As I jump out of coaching and move into something like this where it's about scripting and videos, I supervised and worked on a lot of videos in my corporate life. But no one ever took a video of me. Not ever. Ever. Really? Not ever. Nope.
Kristiana Corona
Oh my word.
Bob Hoeffner
Yep. So it was family videos, if they were even there. So it really was a kind of a brave new world. I was awful at it to start. I was awful at a lot of things to start the first presentation ever made and the home office's environment after a 13-year restaurant career, making it to home office and the rental business, I had a horrible cold. They gave me a topic, which was SMRR, which stood for standard monthly rental revenue in the rental business.
Honestly, didn't understand it. It was very mathematical. It was all about four weeks in a month, or was there 4.2 weeks in a month, and I crashed and burned. I crashed and burned so badly. Then I got a phone call the next day from the CEO's admin, and she told me that I was heading to Chicago the following Monday for a community spine course in public speaking.
And you know what? It didn't hurt me. It probably should have, and, and I'm very, very proud to be honest, but I knew how badly I had done. Nicole didn't help at any, but I knew how badly they had done and I welcomed the opportunity to learn new things. And I think that's a big part of this is taking the chance and recognizing that we have tremendous capacity to learn.
And then it's always about working with the who's, the book does a wonderful job of talking about who are, or make sure you have your who's in place. So when I started this new initiative and building courses, I thought I could do it myself for a while and perhaps just work with Elaine, and she was gonna interview me and we were gonna record this course, and then we were gonna jump into this social media world.
But I learned very quickly that wasn't going to cut it, especially if you wanted to be really successful versus just marginally successful. So it was time to think about hiring a marketing firm. Hiring some people that could help me with the design, hire some coaching from a video perspective, have some editing done by other people.
Although today I do a fair amount of the editing myself, but we have the capacity to learn, and if we're humble enough to get beat up and get off the turf, it's pretty amazing what we can accomplish. But surrounding yourself with the who's. Is really what made me successful in my career because you learn very quickly that you can't work six or seven restaurants.
You can't manage six or seven restaurants and supervising them. You have to rely on the people in those restaurants, which at times was 800 to a thousand individuals and the perhaps one of the biggest aha moments of my life was recognizing that I can't have an impact. As a district manager, multi-unit supervisor, unless I rely on a big group of folks, managers, supervisors, lots and lots of servers and cooks and things of that nature.
So I was getting smacked in the face pretty well. I pretty hard and fortunately. Recognize that I better change the way I look at it and don't rely on myself as much.
Kristiana Corona
So as you identified those opportunities where you were getting the feedback or you were noticing, Hey, this isn't going as well as I want it to, or I'm stretched too thin, how did you know when it was your responsibility to level yourself up versus start relying on someone else?
Bob Hoeffner
It's funny, you've heard me tell the story about. One of my early restaurant visits from the my boss and his boss, and how he asked me, how many hours are you working? And I said, after hemming and hawing. And telling him that, you know, you had terminated the manager before me, and things of that nature that I was working 50 or 60 hours.
And he said to me, Bob, every hour you work over 45 is a measure of your incompetence. I was like, wow. And I kind of knew that, and I think I pride myself, and this is a strange thing to say, but I think it's valuable for the folks that are listening. I am physically lazy, and mentally I try to be mentally on top of my game.
If you'd like to take a vacation as a young manager or young business owner, you're gonna have to rely on the people that you work with. There's a lot of planning in there and there the ability to think out multiple steps, and that also in the corporate world gets to be succession planning and all those types of things.
The ability to think out and realize can't do it yourself. If you build a great team and they execute really well, and execution is a really important word for me in my business and my career, you can get the job done. You can build a team that can be successful because you can't do it yourself.
Kristiana Corona
When you mentioned going on vacation, I think that's a, that's a really nice indicator.
So the overworking, but also, do you feel like you can go on vacation ever, or are you so embedded in the work? Are you so you've got your fingers in everything that if you extract yourself, everything would implode. That's really been something that I've thought a lot about and have worked on within leadership roles within my career has been how well have I coached and trained.
Those around me to handle things while I'm gone. Do I feel like I could successfully take a vacation or not? I think that's a nice barometer.
Bob Hoeffner
It is a great barometer of a bellwether because it's super important that we energize and re-energize and take those vacations on a periodic basis. And fortunately, we, we try to, throughout my career and always managed to carve out a couple of three days or eventually week and of weeks, but.
It's funny, the, the, I often ask my clients what's the most productive day of the year? And some of 'em will hit it, but most don't. But the most productive day of the year is the day before vacation.
Kristiana Corona
Well said. It's, and it's, it is,
Bob Hoeffner
Yeah. There's the, the lessons are in there. You know, what you just talked about is in there.
You do have to think out steps. You have to be building a team for weeks and months in advance if you think you're gonna take a vacation where you're going to really disappear. And in the old days, we didn't have cell phones. In many cases we didn't have phones. The first vacation I took as a young restaurant manager was to Nova Scotia.
We lived in, at that point, I was in New Jersey running a restaurant, and we went to Nova Scotia for six or seven days. And we drove, and I think I knew which hotels we were gonna stay in, but I didn't give my staff any telephone numbers. I said I would check in every other day, but I only expected to
hear about things that were crazy important, like someone had passed away, and you need to come back for that.
And they had the plan, and a lot of it was written out. And maybe that's more granular. It certainly was more granular than it would be today. But they executed beautifully. And part of it also is that I really learned to trust them.
Kristiana Corona
And the wonderful thing about that is the ripple effect of you showing trust in your team empowers people to really step up.
And to be able to lead and to practice leadership. And I think sometimes people don't get the opportunity because we're gripping so tightly to the control and saying, I must do this. I must steer the ship. And yet if you let go a little bit here and there, you allow others to build those leadership skills that they wouldn't otherwise.
Bob Hoeffner
Absolutely. And if you're smart or you're introspective and really looking out, you notice. That there's just a lot of talent out there. I was guilty, especially as a young restaurant manager with limited number of supervisors needing most folks to hit that 45-hour target. You had to push people, and you know, and in the restaurant business I was in, it was casual dining, and there was no alcohol.
So much of the staff was 17, 18, 19 years old, and there were 17 and 18-year-olds that were left to run the restaurant for hours at a time. And eventually shifts at a time, and they didn't know that they could do that in most cases. So helping them understand, you know, much in the way that I learned as a college freshman, that I could be successful in winning, but more importantly, do the job, it makes you feel great.
You know, I love watching. Some of the greatest achievements have been the people that have worked alongside of, and they've been promoted and they've grown, and they've grown and they've grown, and yet of, so many of the business folks that I work with don't think about their staffs that way. They think that their tools, and quite frankly, I just don't think they think enough about them to recognize that the key to success is building that phenomenal team.
That executes in your absence as well as when you're there, and that's the only way you can be successful in the marketplace, especially if your business is open. As my early restaurants were from 7:00 AM till midnight, seven days a week. You can't do it yourself.
Kristiana Corona
Yeah, it's almost nice to say there's no physical way that I could, and so therefore I have to be creative and I have to invest in my team because if I tried doing it all, I would absolutely fail. Like there is no success in that.
Bob Hoeffner
You can't conceivably do it.
Kristiana Corona
And I think something that really resonates with me in that also is the fact that as we think about coaching people, there is this inherent belief that people are capable and that they're creative and they can come up with solutions if we give them the right parameters in the right time.
And the right support to think it through. And so just the muscles that are built, the mental capability, the confidence that's built in, allowing people to see that, oh, I do have, I do have that within me, even if I'm only 17. I do have that within me. It's something that can be cultivated, and I think it can change someone's life.
The trajectory that I thought I was on at some point, I had no idea it would ever become a leadership career for almost 23 years. And someone had to show belief in me first. And so sometimes I think being an advocate and being that leader who believes in someone and says, I know you're capable to do more.
I know that if I give you that space and that support, that you will step up and do far more than. You've ever thought you could do. It's just been phenomenal to watch those things happen again and again in that pattern. When I was in high school, I grew up in a, a family that had limited resources financially.
Both of my parents were artists, and so as I was thinking about college, there was this point in time where I knew, Hey, I'm gonna have to do this on my own. I'm gonna have to fund most of this on my own. And so I had no idea. If I could make money or all of these things that I was gonna have to learn, but yet there was this pattern of my dad investing in me and, and showing me how to use computers when I was 12 years old.
And my good friend's family let me work in their shop when I was 14. And then, you know, throughout that period of time there was this sort of investment that people were making in me to help me understand that, hey, when I get out there in the real world, I may have to work three jobs, which is what I did, but I can do it and I can make my way through college and I can be self-sufficient.
And so I think part of that is, is the. Knowing that you can and trying and working hard, but part of it again, is who is investing in you and who is giving you those opportunities and pouring into you to even give you the belief that you could do it. And so I think our roles as leaders are supremely important in that way.
Bob Hoeffner
Yeah. One of the things I learned early on when I was supervising probably six or seven restaurants at that point with the phone on the wall, I did a YouTube video of this recently as just a little snippet, but. Especially running restaurants with a lot of young people. All kinds of crazy things happen when you're running restaurants.
Restaurants are an education in and of themselves, so the phone would ring and maybe three or four or five times a day. In the beginning, if I was working from home or if it was a day off, and I'd answer the question, Hey, gr into problem here. What do I do? I answered the question, there was a day, and I don't know what caused it.
Perhaps some frustration, perhaps I just had a smart day instead of a dumb day. I learned that it was time to ask the question, so what do you think you need to do? And it's amazing how often they had the answer, but it's amazing how it, it actually was the beginning of the coach paradigm because in asking that question, we're doing what we do as good coaches, which is basically.
Tell me what you think you might wanna do, and then listening, and then in the coach paradigm that, that certainly I practice. It's Tell me more. Tell me more. Let's dig into that a little bit deeper. And you don't ever say. But that's a really bad idea. You, you and, or that you're wrong and a good coach, you know, certainly can, yeah.
Toss in opinions when appropriate, but for the most part, it's our job to pull out of talented people. And most people are what they know and how they can do the job on their own. So it, it's interesting because we learn along the way as, as leaders, before we were coaches in executive development, that these tools work.
So for me, it was very natural to be a coach that said, Hey, let's talk about the best way to do this. What do you think? What do you think? And it is really joyful, quite frankly.
Kristiana Corona
Yeah, I would agree with that a hundred percent. Because I feel like when people come to you and they ask you, what should I do?
Can you tell me the answer? What they really want? Is for you to give them that space to think it through because they've got the majority of what they need. They just need to think it out and come up with a plan, and then they wanna hear, am I on the right track? And because every other time when someone says.
Tell me the answer, what should I do? And then you give them the answer. Inevitably, there's resistance. It's like, well, that's not exactly what I wanted to do, or That's not, well, you don't know this or that information. There's so much goodness that they've already got. And so we're doing them a disservice by not allowing them to extract all of that and put it together in a way that makes sense if we're just telling them the answer, and oftentimes they have an answer that's even better.
They have something that they feel committed to and they could go do right now because they came up with the idea themselves.
Bob Hoeffner
And a key too is that commitment word, because when they make their decision, perhaps with our help, sometimes with a gentle push, sometimes a little, little bit more of a shove when they make that decision, if they're committed to it. They make it work.
I always like to talk about, and this is how I perceive it, I think it's probably accurate, but you know, only think about George Washington talking to his other leaders before crossing the Delaware and there were a lot of decisions that had to be made and you know, what night is it and do we cross when there's a full moon?
And what about the weather and how many people go on the boats and all that type of thing? Then, eventually as a leader, and this is where I assume, but I think this is probably the way it happened, he said, okay, guys, we're gonna cross tomorrow. We're gonna do it at six o'clock. The moon's gonna be out, the moon's not gonna be out, whatever.
And because we're all committed to be successful and we've all had conversation, and that's they say, let's go for it. And so the great leader doesn't have to be. Correct all the time in an academic sense, they need to put across that confidence and helping folks understand that we've examined this from all the ways we need to, and now we're ready to make a decision, and there are four decisions we can make, or six or eight, or 10 or two.
But we're gonna make this decision and because we're very confident and committed to your point. Most often it carries the day.
Kristiana Corona
Yeah, and I think what's amazing about that is, is the idea that that leader, or whether it's George Washington or any other great leader, oftentimes had a process around how they would select or solicit input, and so they weren't making decisions in a vacuum.
Leaders often knew that in order to have great results repeatedly, they need to. Get input. They need to get perspectives. They need to be challenged. One of the things I really loved about working at Amazon was the leadership principles where we talked about understanding how to be right a lot. And it sounds a little conceited maybe on the surface, but what it means actually underneath the surface is that you look for other opinions, that you purposely solicit information from your team, from other sources, and that you actively ask for your ideas to be challenged.
Is there a better way to do this? Is there something I haven't considered? What are my blind spots? And rather than saying, I'm right a lot because I know everything, what you do is you're soliciting all this information so that when you make a decision. You are more confident and you are right more often, which I really liked that theme.
So again, it doesn't rely on my own expertise and my own perfect track record. It takes into account maybe what I've learned, but part of that pattern is always soliciting that input from others.
Bob Hoeffner
Oh yeah. One of the best bosses I ever worked for was a fellow named Doug Anderson, and we'd have a staff meeting at that point.
I was a director. We'd have a staff meeting every Monday afternoon. There'd be three DVPs, division vice presidents, three of the most diverse individuals you've ever met. And typically, if another gentleman, Dave Dorwart, and I, Dave runs nine companies today. He was a star was then and still is, but the five of us are, the six of us with Doug would be in the room and Doug would listen.
For hours to these three DVPs duke it out, to your point. And there were a lot of diverse opinions. In fact, one of them was very diverse in that he had no interest whatsoever in anything competitive, which is pretty unusual in the leadership world. So we might be talking about incentives and things of that nature.
And Don was always absolutely anti-incentive, which is interesting. But we'd listen. And eventually Doug, the COO would say, okay guys, I've heard enough and this is the way we should proceed. Are we all on the same page? And his term was eventually looking at Dave and I or the two people that had to put it in place.
Two directors, you know, is it crystal clear? In fact he'd stick at F in there is an expletive. Is it crystal clear? And then he expected us to say, you know what? I think I got 95% of it, but as it relates to the date, actually I don't think we can hit this date. We've got some of the things on the, in the pipeline.
How about if we negotiate for a different date or we do it a different way, or there's just a clarifying and confirming question, we'd answer all those questions. And when we left the room, probably much in the way when the officers, other officers left the room with George Washington, so to speak. We were all on the same page and we're all gonna work together to be successful.
And potentially, we all didn't agree with how it all came out, but the success was there because we all were aligned and we learned along the way, that's for sure, because we listened to a lot of input.
Kristiana Corona
I think one of the biggest challenges that people run into often. Is that their voice isn't being heard.
And so what I love about that description that you just shared is, hey, they, their voice was heard. Their voice was heard for hours. And so whether or not you win the day or the decision goes in your favor, you have been heard. And there's, it's much easier to commit to whatever decision you come to.
Bob Hoeffner
Yep. And the commitment's gotta be there.
Kristiana Corona
Okay. That was part one of my conversation with Bob Hoffner. He had so much great wisdom to share though that I'm gonna have to do a part two episode. In the next episode, we're gonna dive into. How to shift your identity to take on 10 X goals, what Bob learned leading through the chaos of opening 40 stores in just over a year, and why optimism might just be your greatest advantage as a leader.
That's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. Keep showing up, keep choosing the work that matters and keep leading like you're worthy to lead because you are. Bye for now.
