Lisa W. Rogers
Kids gain confidence by doing something hard and when they do something hard, then they gain the confidence. Okay, well the next hard thing that comes along I can do it.
Kristiana Corona
Ever feel like everyone else has leadership figured out and you are just making it up as you go? I've been there. I spent two decades leading design and technology teams at Fortune 500 companies, and for years, I looked like I had everything pulled together on the outside, but on the inside, I felt burned out, overwhelmed, and unworthy of the title leader.
Then a surprise encounter with executive coaching changed my life and dramatically improved my leadership style and my results. Now I help others make that same shift in their leadership. This podcast is where we do the work, building the mindset, the coaching skills, and the confidence to lead with clarity and authenticity, and to finally feel worthy to lead from the inside out.
Hey Lisa, thank you so much for joining us today on The Worthy To Lead podcast. We're so glad to have you here.
Lisa W. Rogers
Thank you very much. I'm looking forward to it. It's my pleasure.
Kristiana Corona
So I really wanna just jump right in and. Ask you, uh, what originally drew you to Taekwondo and how did that journey from just being like a personal interest or a personal discipline really evolve into something that applies to leadership for you?
Lisa W. Rogers
Well, I started because my son was in it, and he made black belt, and he kept asking me to get on the floor with him. And I said, yeah, why not? So when he made black belt, I got on the floor with him. It was great. I mean, you got to legally kick your kids around. No one calls social services on you. And then, when I was about a green belt, my daughter started, so it became very much of a family affair.
We went to tournaments together and it was just a lot of fun. Um, my son went through second degree and then he got into junior high and stopped. My daughter, uh, made it through first degree, and she got into junior high and stopped, but I just kept going, and then I ended up. I was between marriages, if you will.
And, uh, one of the instructors there and I ended up getting together. We've now been together for 33 years and you know, when he took over the school, it just was natural, but I took it over with him. But when I made first degree, I never thought I was wanting to make first degree until I got close. And then I said, okay, make first degree I can stop.
And then I made first degree and I said, but that's all, that's as far as I wanna go. And I made first degree and I went. Nah, I think I'd like to do second degree, and then I made second degree and the same thing happened. Fifth degree is about the only one that wasn't my terminal, right? 'cause I had some injuries at fourth degree.
And when I made a decision to come back, which is hard, I said, I'm not coming back to be a fifth degree. I'm coming back to be a master. And it's really a testament to the eternal ground master, Hee Lee, who founded the organization that he made every step believable. You know, if you had said, look, here's what a sixth degree does.
Do you think you could ever do that? And you know, in so many years it would've been absolutely not. But he made each step achievable. And so you always wanted to take that next step.
Kristiana Corona
That is absolutely incredible. I mean, just the fact that you started off as a mom who is out there supporting their kids, you know, just like no commitment whatsoever, just casually being there in the stands.
I mean, not everybody makes that leap from sitting passively on the sidelines to like, sure, I'll go get on the mat. Like, how did that decision even, uh, happen for you?
Lisa W. Rogers
That was the hardest thing in the world was getting on the mat for the first time. There was another mom, and she and I had been sitting on the sidelines together, and we kept saying, you know, when our sons make black belt, you know, we ought to get on it.
We ought to get on it. Well, her son made black belt just slightly before mine, and she started. Then I realized that if I let her get ahead of me and rank, it wouldn't be as much fun. I needed to start while she was still a white belt. So I did it with three classes to spare. I literally spent three classes as a white belt.
I had my son teach me everything before I got on the floor. And then here you are. You're a competent, an adult who is confident in their life and what they know. And they walk on the floor, and suddenly they're like a little kid. Right? They know nothing. And that's what white belt is. It's without knowledge.
And it was really tough. And when I walked in the very first day with my uniform on, there's a tradition that when a high rank enters the school, you stop the class and you turn 'em bow to 'em. Well, they did that to me when I walked into the class the very first time, which of course made me even feel more self-conscious.
But, uh, it's like, not yet. Not yet, but at least I had, I had somebody I started with now, her husband got transferred when we were yellow belts. And so after, I mean like six months, barely six, four months. I had her as a partner and then she moved and there I was all by myself.
Kristiana Corona
But you kept going.
Lisa W. Rogers
I kept going because like I said, I got to kick my son around.
Kristiana Corona
That actually sounds really fun. I have teenage boys, um, and a five-year-old daughter who likes to kick me around whether I like it or not. Well, my son was only nine at the time, so it
Lisa W. Rogers
Was easier to kick him around than when he.
Kristiana Corona
Oh my gosh. That's incredible. And I think what's really amazing about that, and you share a lot about this in your articles, is just that martial arts is not just about teaching like the technical skills, but it's really about exploring what those deeper life values are.
And just the fact that, you know, perseverance, you didn't just show up and do it when it was fun with your friend, right? Like you just kept going, and respect and confidence and things like that. And I'm curious, like as you went through that journey and that exploration for yourself, how did the some of that start to show up in your leadership?
Like for example, I know a lot of leaders feel moments of doubt and. Started questioning, am I worthy to lead? Am I worthy to show up in these different ranks? And so, as you were developing that confidence within Taekwondo, how did that translate to leadership? You, you said it, it's, it's the confidence that you can lead.
Lisa W. Rogers
This is something I told parents all the time when they brought their kids in. Kids gain confidence by doing something hard. And when they do something hard, then they gain the confidence. Okay, well, the next hard thing that comes along I can do. And. You can see that in the kids, they developed this confidence that, Hey, I can do this, I can do this.
And when they make black belt, it's like a game changer for them. Now most of them quit at that point in time, which is a shame. But at the same time, I know that the struggle they went through to make black belt and that the next time they're faced with something in their life, same thing's gonna happen.
And it was the same true of me. Uh, probably the biggest challenge I ever had was my mastership training year. It was the year between when I made sixth degree and then I was inducted as a master. And there's a lot of training you go through, and I wasn't a spring chicken at the time. I was probably the oldest one in the group, but I did it.
I mean, I climbed the 2000-foot mountain in 2.1 miles, and I did the 12-hour training after three days of fasting. I mean, I did all of those things, and so if I can do that. I mean, if I put my mind to it and you have the perseverance and you stick to it, and all of the other life skills come together, if I can do that, I can do anything.
Kristiana Corona
Well, I would imagine that it puts a lot of things in business in context. Right. Because after you've accomplished something that challenging, you're like, what's a day? What's a day in the life at the office? Right? Like there's so many things that, that are, there are challenges.
Lisa W. Rogers
It's not all there's challenges, but yes, yes. That, just that confidence. I mean, when I look back over my journey in martial arts, that's the number one thing probably that I can point to, and the discipline to just take it one step at a time, not get overwhelmed. Right. Like I said, making sixth degree was overwhelming when you're a white belt, but it's taking it one step at a time and doing what you can and then taking the next step forward, the next step forward, the next step.
And that's so true in business, and it fits in perfect with the whole agile mentality that they have in business now, just. Take the first little bit, get it done, do the next. Do the next.
Kristiana Corona
Yeah. And you talk about from an agility standpoint, just like how nimble we need to be within business these days. With all of the chaos and all of the things that are sort of swirling around, how does that life value sort of integrate with the, the agile methodology for you?
Lisa W. Rogers
We call it, it was sort of the theme of our school. It was the three D's of success is desire, discipline, and dedication. And in fact, that's what's on my black belt in Korean is desire, discipline, dedication, that in order to succeed in something, you've gotta want it.
You've gotta have the desire, or you've gotta have the business need in business, translate it to business. It's gotta be a business need that you have that makes the company wanna take this step. And then you've gotta have the discipline to do what's necessary. And that's where the Agile comes in.
And just take it one step at a time and stick with. And then the determination is perseverance. Whatever word you wanna use, it's keep at it even if it doesn't work the first time. Pivot. Try again. Pivot, try again. And eventually you're gonna achieve that goal.
Kristiana Corona
And I think what's so, uh, challenging sometimes for people is they get stuck in that messy middle and it feels difficult and they don't see the end coming near.
It's like, oh, this is so hard. I don't like how it feels. It's just really challenging, you know, whether it's waking up super early and going to work out and having the discipline to do like that, or mastering a skill where you are a beginner and you're used to being a master at something. You're used to having subject matter expertise, and you have to get really uncomfortable doing something you're not good at, over and over and over.
So I'm curious, as you sort of went through that journey yourself, what was it that helped you on those days where it felt really tough and you didn't see the outcome of the next level quite yet?
Lisa W. Rogers
It's never losing sight of where you're going. It's never losing sight of the big picture. Even though you're taking small steps towards it, and to me, that's what a leader is, right?
My favorite definition of a leader is someone who has a vision, can communicate that vision and get other people to follow them in that vision. So you've gotta have a vision. Where are we going to end up? How does this all look when things are done? Now if you present that to the business, they're all gonna, you know.
Like I like me trying to think about being a block belt. You don't wanna crawl into a table, but if you break it down, you know where you're going. And if you don't know where you're going, you can't take the steps in that direction. A step may take you in totally the wrong direction. You've gotta understand so that constantly moving in the right direction.
So you've gotta know where you're going, but then you've gotta take those small steps. Know what the small steps are that are going to get you there. And that was something that run master used to focus on all the time is the roadmap is he provided us a roadmap to mastership, and he broke it down for us.
And that's what I do in a business is I have to have that vision, but then break it down into that roadmap, and then celebrate along the way. I'm really big about celebrating successes, personal successes, team successes. Whatever you celebrate those successes. Sometimes. I remember one time we had to really rush to get a project done, and they worked over Memorial Weekend to get it done.
We did it and I brought 'em in a Booyah. The next day. Now I know what Booya was, but you knew I would be great booya beans, but it was just, just a thing, boy to say. Thanks guys. I know you worked really hard on this. This isn't at the end, but it was an important step. You all worked really hard on it, and I wanna stop for a moment and recognize that.
Kristiana Corona
I love that. And it's so interesting too, because it doesn't always have to be something really grand or really huge, right? It can be a small gesture, but just the thought that, hey, this thing here is really important. You worked really hard on this and it's worth recognizing.
Lisa W. Rogers
It's why we have belts, right? Way, a long time ago, a black belt was just a white belt that got so dirty from working out that it became black, right? But now we have all these belts in between that. Mark your successes along the way, and you get to test and you get the belt, and we have a celebration, and you get those mini celebrations along the way to where your ultimate goal is, but you're always pushing the vision out, trying to get them to see the broader horizon.
Kristiana Corona
Well, and I think it's so interesting, just the psychology, our human psychology, and how we're motivated by things like that, right? Like color of the belt. It's not any more fancy or expensive necessarily. It's the color, but it feels. Important. It feels like you're making progress. And my, uh, my five-year-old daughter was taking this mini version of a martial arts class in her preschool, and they had a white belt, but they put like colored tape around the bottom of it, and they would put the little stripes.
And one week she missed and she didn't get the colored stripe, and she was so. She was so mad. She's like, I need the stripe mom. I missed the stripe. This is really bad.
Lisa W. Rogers
Well, we did the same thing even within a testing cycle. We would do okay so far in, you know, your basics for that rank, and you get a stripe, and then a little bit further in, you know, your form.
You get to stripe, you've memorized it, and then a little bit further in, you know, your one steps, you know your form, your forms coming to get together, you're starting to look like you're ready to test to get that third stripe. And then when it comes time to see who's gonna test you look for the people with three stripes.
So yes, even within the smaller two-month belt, two to four month belt grouping, they're still smaller steps, right? Just stick. So you can keep moving forward and you don't get stuck going around in a circle, right? Or wondering, am I making progress? Am I getting there? One of my other favorite things I did is I had a team company name of the company, started with a Q, and so they had all these different teams, all started with Q, but we were just operations, IT operations.
So we started calling our team Q Ops, and every month I would do the statistics and I would give out, and it was the person who had closed the most tickets. And the person who had. Who had made the most progress towards a project we were working on, and I had an oh oh seven badge that got the person who closed the most tickets, and the person who made the most progress, fastest progress on a project, got a little, it was the up.
Martin from Skylark, and it was a, uh, Hot Wheels, a special edition, and they got that. And then the next month they trade, I mean, whoever got it the next month. And they were, they used to laugh about it. They proudly displayed it at their desk, and they, you know, they've got the car and then next week, month they'd turn it over to somebody else and, you know, or whoever else was next.
And, uh, and it was just became a fun thing to motivate people and keeping 'em moving forward. Because sometimes you can get stuck in the day-to-day grind of doing one more sidekick, doing one more, you know, hook, kick, and it's tougher. And that's the other thing interesting. In our style of martial arts, color belts, you're going every two to four months.
First degree, you gotta be a first degree for a year. You've gotta be a second degree for two years, a third degree for three years, fourth degree for four years. So, you're extending the amount of time before you can make, and you don't have built in all of those natural, um, steps. So you've gotta figure a way of self-motivating yourself.
What are the victories you're looking for? What is, what's gonna show you that you're progressing properly so that you're ready to test in six years or whatever?
Kristiana Corona
It's how do you continue that motivation when it's a period of years that you're waiting turn into help.
Lisa W. Rogers
Because that's a good way of measuring your progress on your form.
Lisa W. Rogers
Um, so that helps you start developing a sense of when a form feels right. When you start getting the flow of it and it just kind of feels right to you and your techniques seem to come, you know, effortlessly. So you're work, you're working towards that. I used to have a, I always chose a, a song to go with, starting at fourth degree, a song to go with it so that I could work out the pacing and make it better flow on the form. So, you know, you, you find ways to do that.
Kristiana Corona
It sounds almost like creativity, like there's an element where you start to become a master at something and there's a flow to it, and it starts to be. It's beautiful, and you feel it, rather than feeling like I have to work hard.
Lisa W. Rogers
It's the art side of the martial arts, right? You have to work hard, don't you? You don't have to work hard, but yes, you, you, you get in the groove, and again, it's that confidence, right? You know, you know the pacing. You are becoming a master in the art. I mean, you're starting to really understand it. You're starting to make it your own. They're not nearly as restrictive at the six-degree form about certain how you do certain techniques.
Cause you're expected to understand that now and to do what's right for you, and so you just kind of get it in the flow. And again, it's no different than in business, right? In business, that's what you want. Your team, you want to get your team into a flow, into a way of working together that they're comfortable, that it works nice, that they've got good camaraderie, that you take those moments to succeed.
They enjoy being together. They work hard towards the next goal. They understand what their V, the vision and where they're going, and why they're going there and creating that cohesive team. And that flow feels very much the same way when a team clicks.
Kristiana Corona
I love that, uh, visual imagery because I think sometimes people can get derailed just by the chaos of what's happening around them, and yet there are repeatable things that you're learning and mastering over time, whether they be how you do the job, how you close a ticket, how you create a certain outcome, uh, within the business and being able to take pride and say, I can do that faster. I can do it more seamlessly, more effortlessly, until the point where you start to ideate and create new things and start to build on top of those skills. So I really love that. So, um, I wanna talk a little bit about a few of these other components of values, right?
Um, so you talk about like, in your experience as a, an IT professional, eliminating nearly a million dollars in expenses and helping to secure these, these clinics, 63 of these clinics, and other big results that you've been able to have within it. As you think about the application of these martial arts values, things like balance and timing and calm under pressure, it sounds like those have played really pivotal roles in your ability to drive results, to deliver big results for the companies that you've worked for. Um, so I'm curious how those things help you, um, when you approach those business challenges.
Lisa W. Rogers
Well, certainly self-control, which is big in martial arts, plays along a, a big, huge factor, right? When you get a bunch of people together with different ideas, a good give and take is important, but at the same time, you know the respect and being respectful of everybody and their ideas and seeing them each as an individual and where they're coming from and why they see things. To make space for all of that, right? It's one of my favorite mastership life skills is humility. And humility. I love the description that humility says that it's, it's about the success of the team and the success of the company. It's not about me. CS Lewis had a quote that says, humility is not thinking less of yourself.
It's thinking of yourself less. And so it's stepping aside and showing the respect to other people and allowing them room to bring up their ideas and to try to understand their point of view so that you're able to collectively come up with the best solution and the best way forward. Respect is one of those words.
It's like one of my favorite words in martial arts because I think it's so misunderstood. Uh, most people confuse respect with courtesy. Be respectful. Say please. Thank you. That's being courteous. Respect actually comes from the lot more spectacle or spect. So spectator spectacles. Eyeglasses it means to see, and re means to see again.
o respect is to see a person again, to see who that person is, see beyond the surface, beyond even maybe some of their bluing or whatever, and really look to the person inside and who that person is and the value that person brings. And it doesn't matter whether you're the CIO of the company or the person who takes out the trash, every person in the company. You deserve respect, and you need to actually see them for who they really are.
Kristiana Corona
Yeah. Um, and that's interesting that you make a differentiation between courtesy, which maybe feels like deferential, I'm just doing this because I'm supposed to, versus the idea of respect is far deeper and more meaningful. Has an impact on the other person being seen, being recognized, feeling like their opinion is worthwhile. And I would assume that gets you a very different response.
Lisa W. Rogers
Yes. Courtesy is about the social niceties that grieves, you know, life and it's, you know, it's being polite and sane, please, and thank you.
And courteously not talking over somebody else or whatever. Even though you may be thinking a thousand miles about what you wanna say next. Respect is a totally different thing.
Kristiana Corona
So when you think about a situation, a typical business situation that you encounter where someone could maybe move past that and not show respect, like how do you go and approach that situation differently with the lens of respect? Like what things would you ask or, or look for?
Lisa W. Rogers
I've dealt with a lot of people who aren't respectful. I've had some bosses or bosses, bosses or whatever who really. I didn't think highly of people, you know, so they, it didn't show right. They just did the perfunctory things that were necessary, you know, societally.
But beyond that, they had no real respect for the person. I can't change them. I can't make them who they're not. I can only choose to be who I am and stick to my values and, uh, try to understand them to the extent I can, to understand where they're coming from and why they are the way they are and what their pressures may be.
And it doesn't necessarily excuse it, and I'm not trying to excuse away bad behavior. But the more you can try to see that person, the easier it is for you to deal with it. Right? Because it's ultimately you're not gonna change them. We had an expression of martial arts. We used to call it bow to the belt.
There were a couple of high ranks in the organization that as people, I didn't have a lot of respect for. And yet they say respect for your seniors. And so you, that's when you start delving into, what do you mean by respect? Well, these people were high ranks and they knew more about martial arts than I would ever hope to know.
And I respected that about them. I respected the fact that they were excellent martial artists and that I had something to learn from them, even if they weren't necessarily the nicest people in the world. The expression we just used was, you bite Bower the belt, you bower the rank and what they've achieved, not necessarily to who they are as a person.
Kristiana Corona
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I would assume, uh, a lot of people, uh, especially in the C-Suite, think, well, I have to put that aside. I have a tough job. I have to make the hard calls, so I'm not, respect is sort of. Eh, like, I don't need to, I don't need to have that here because my job calls for me to be direct and take care of things.
But what I'm hearing you say is that there's a form of respect that is applicable anywhere, in any role, at any rank, and that there's a way to do it authentically without selling your soul by recognizing what are the things that people have accomplished, what is it that, that they're here to teach me in a way, despite maybe some of the things we don't agree on.
Lisa W. Rogers
Yeah. What can I learn? What can I take from it? What direction do I take? They're, you know, senior in the business, even in the C-suite. I never took that attitude that, you know, I make the hard decisions 'cause I can't implement every decision we make, right? It's gotta be implemented. And so I've gotta have a team that'll follow me, which is back to the leadership, right?
You can't just sit from on high and dictate, do this, do this, do this. It's constantly selling. You know, when I got into technology, I said. I really don't wanna be in sales. I really don't. They kept trying to pull me out of in technical, into technical sales, and I said, I don't wanna be a salesman. I don't wanna be a salesman.
What? I'm a salesman because I'm selling my vision all the time, both higher up and further down about why this is the right place. You've gotta be able to articulate the vision you have and make it what's in it for me. From the other person's point of view, you've gotta be able to articulate what's in it for me, whether that's the CEO of the company, or whether that's one of the people who's gonna have to do multifactor every time they log onto their computer and hates it, you know?
Yeah. It's about. Selling that vision. So yeah, even from the C-Suite, I've never taken the attitude. I can just sort of dictate and say, you know, I know what's best, and this is what we're gonna do.
Kristiana Corona
Well, and I think too, a lot of what we talk about that on this podcast and Worthy to Lead is that there are certain elements of being a leader and values that you wanna root into that are non-negotiables, you know, they're things that you wanna build over time, and it doesn't change if you leave the company. It doesn't change if you leave and go to another level. It's, uh, the type of leadership that we need more in this world is, you know, values-aligned kind of leadership where people know what to expect from you.
They know who you are as a person, and you can have that integrity. And I know you talk a lot about like integrity and things like that and being consistent, um, regardless of where you are, I am.
Lisa W. Rogers
Integrity is another one of my favorites. And because integrity to me is about, it's not about, it's not the same thing as truthfulness. Integrity and truthfulness are not the same thing. Integrity is about being an integrated human being. And so your actions and your thoughts and your words and who you are here and who you are at home, they're one integrated human being. You're not saying different things to different people or something like that.
And I love these, um, companies that have one of their core values is integrity. To me, integrity is a. Is the result of living your core values. It's not a core value; it's the result of living your core value. And so when the business acts and thinks and behaves the same way with various people in the company or across different areas, then that company is.
So you've gotta be true to your own integrity and to the company's integrity, what they value and what, as long as it's consistent, right? And as much as you can, you know, reach alignment between this.
Kristiana Corona
When I know you had a, um, a quote called out on one of your articles that really gets at the heart of that, which is, you know, the things that we're thinking. That then become the words that we say, the actions that we take, the habits, the behaviors, the character that we're developing, how all of those things are aligned. And so you kind of have to have alignment all the time in the different circumstances, both to show that you have integrity, but also because it becomes the destiny of where you're headed as a person, as a leader. They're all connected.
Lisa W. Rogers
Yeah. Your thoughts end up creating your character.
Kristiana Corona
That's important 'cause I think sometimes we, we think like, oh, it's just this one thing. I'm just doing one off. I'll just do it that way. Or I, I, you know, but every one of those instances is either leading towards something that you want to become or leading towards something you wish you weren't becoming.
Lisa W. Rogers
Right. And then that's when you have a decision to make, right? Yeah. Yeah. Am I gonna continue down that path or am I gonna change my thoughts and my behaviors and my actions and what I do to be more in aligned. It brings to mind. Another one of our favorite things we used to tell our kids was in the school, our students, adults, and kids was like, as a grindstone. And whether it grinds you down or hones you up, depends on what you're made of.
Kristiana Corona
Ooh, I like that one. I haven't heard that one before.
Lisa W. Rogers
Yeah.
Kristiana Corona
Oh, that's cool. Um, speaking of grinding you down, sometimes we have moments of failures, right? But I know you like to think about failure as a teacher, and you've talked about like creating a climate, whether it's at your school or whether it's in business, where failure is not just accepted, but it's actually encouraged.
And I'm curious, just if you have any stories about. Just failure in general, where, you know, you really saw that turn into something that created success.
Lisa W. Rogers
I think my whole career says that because there've been, there've been failures in the career, and I've moved on and I've done something, but everyone has been a better, you know, I've learned from it.
I've, and I've gotten better and better at what I do. Right. With every interaction. So, my whole career is a testament to that. But I did think of a story about a young man who worked for me and that generation, you know, that we complain about all the time. And, and he, um, he didn't show up for work for a week, and he called one of his teammates and said his dad was in the hospital.
And then he was in the hospital with his dad, and he was right in the middle of a pretty important project when this happened. And so I told the other team member, I said, tell him he needs to talk to me. Calling your teammate is not telling, giving notice that you're not gonna be at work.
Right? And he texted me and I said, I need to talk to you. And so he called me when I wasn't available and then I called him back, and then he texted me again, and I said. This isn't enough. This, you can't just text you. I need to speak with you. I need to know what to do. And I mean, and if he had said, look, my dad's in the hospital that he's on his deathbed.
The whole family's there. I need two weeks. Fine. You know, I understand. I mean, I've been there. I. But it's the not talking to me, so I don't know what to do with his projects. And then, uh, I started checking at the end of the week with HR about at what point does he just sort of abandon his job. And Monday we terminated him.
I remember what was the turning point I was still struggling with, you know, 'cause his dad was sick and everything. Well, that Sunday was Father's Day, and he had posted on social media, a picture of him in his backyard in a swimming pool with a drink in his hand going, Hey, shout out to all the fathers out there.
You know, big grin on his face and stuff like that. So I said, yeah, this is not cool. So we terminated him, and then he tried to log in to do some work and couldn't, and then he called me and I had a long conversation with him, and I told him about business behavior and what's acceptable and what's not acceptable and, and what he needs to do in, in situations like this.
And so when he came by to drop off his things, he came in and thanked me. So I just let this guy go, and he came in and thanked me, and he said he had learned so much from me. And he really appreciated everything that I, I showed him and taught him and the time I spent with him, not just in this instance but throughout, you know, the time he had worked for me.
And I said, well, you're a great guy. You've got a lot to offer. Just take this as a learning experience and in your next job, learn something from it and move forward, 'cause I know you'll be successful. They just don't know how to. Proper behavior and business. Right. And they've gotta almost be taught from the ground up.
And it was a hard lesson for him. But you know, I think at the end of the day, he'll, he'll enter his feet, he'll be fine. And so whenever I think about taking those lessons from failure, he comes to mind because how many people do you fire? And then they come and thank you.
Kristiana Corona
Exactly. Well, and it sounds like, you know, there was also a difference in your, uh, belief that he could change your belief that he could take something out of it, learn and, and turn it into a positive Right. Versus the message that you're screw up, get outta here. Yeah,
Lisa W. Rogers
Exactly. And I'm always gonna, the best of people.
Kristiana Corona
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I assume, uh, I know in some of your articles you've also talked about like people coming in, starting martial arts, and they don't have a great foundation, they don't have confidence in themselves.
They might be there as sort of like last chance, gotta do something with your life. Right? And you're able to help them build confidence by continually delivering that feedback over and over again and seeing them fail and then get back up. This is how we get back up.
Lisa W. Rogers
Right. This is how you get back. This is how you do it. And the parents are so integral to that. And I had, I had, sometimes I felt like I was raising the parents as much as the kids believe it. Um, and every time, you know, they come in, I said, look, ride around purple belt. They're gonna wanna quit. I guarantee you everybody wants to quit around then. It's when black belt still seems far away and yet.
The material is getting harder, and because it starts off slow and it's purple belt is bruised, but undaunted, the student comes to the mountain, right, and things more difficult. And I said, and it's up to you and me to work together to support him through that and get him over that hump and learn that he can succeed if he just perseveres and things like that.
You know, people who quit are taught to quit. And I had a father come in, right, A purple belt right on Target, and his son wanted to quit. And I kind of was, you know, you gotta make sure that something didn't happen in the school that made, you know, so I cleared all of that, and I said, so it's just that he's not having fun and he, and it's getting hard.
And he went, well, yeah, he wants to do other things. And I said, you'll remember that conversation we had when he started. I said, this is the pivotal point, you know, if let him to quit, let him quit. He's gonna learn to quit. My son's not a quitter, and yet he's quitting, and so it's working with the parents.
And then I have another parent. Her son was ADD, but she medicate him and she said he just needs to learn to control his behavior. And he was one of our greatest success stories. I mean, it was amazing to see him for where he couldn't even stand still on a dot. And to the point where he was, you know, when he made black belt and was going on to second degree, you know, that he was fully in charge of that.
And that was about, he was just going into high school at that point in time. So I had, you know, in those late, um, middle, late elementary, middle school years, and he. He changed his midterm for black belt, which nobody ever does, because he was just all over the place, and he would, he got up to break his boards, and he said, there's a funny story about this.
It was like, there are four appropriate responses from you right now. Yes ma'am. Yes sir. No ma'am. No sir. That's it. That's all you get to say. And so we sat down with him and his mom and explained it to him. And she was 100% supportive, 100% supportive. She had been all walk. She was one of the, you know, she knew what she was trying to accomplish in her son's life, and she could see what we were doing to help her with that.
And we were working as a group, as a, you know, as a pair to, to help that. And, uh, the next time he came out and did his midterm, it was just like. Stellar. I mean, he was a great role model to everybody else. He sat still when he was on the sidelines. Yes sir. No sir. Yes ma'am. No ma'am. We the only thing that came out of him for that entire period of time, and it's developing that self-control that enables you to, to persevere.
Kristiana Corona
What a cool story. I mean, that just gives me goosebumps, you know, thinking about. That development, like how much can be developed within anybody?
Lisa W. Rogers
I had another student who came in, and his mom actually my priest, yeah, enrolled him and paid for it because he was getting into high school, and he wasn't hanging with the right group of people, and he was going down the wrong path and he came in and started working out with us.
The priest paid for his dues until, and testings until black belt. And, but during that time he did have some issues with some drugs and we had to deal with that and it got to be a point where he didn't wanna disappoint. Actually, it was my husband, master Sears. He didn't wanna disappoint Master Sears. If he thought he had, he would just break down and he ended up get graduating from high school with honors. He had his program with Chevron. He went to community college in the new Texas Tyler engineering school. Then went to work for Exxon, I mean Chevron. And he's still working for him. And when he graduated from high school, his mom turned to me and she said, we did it.
Kristiana Corona
Oh, how gratifying. Yeah. That must be. It was.
Lisa W. Rogers
It was. I think that's probably the thing that was more important than me making sixth degree and master is the lives that I've touched during that time. That's what fits into my personal passion is the, IS service. That's just, you know, it's why I've got a master's in theology, right?
It's what I loved about Taekwondo. It's what I love about running teams and business and being able to be of service to the company and to my team. And they both have to be represented, and how can I be of service? In fact, the other day, one of the owners called me one, he had some questions, and I picked up the phone and I said, how can I be of service to you today?
I don't know what made me use that particular phrase, but that's what I said. How can I be of service to you today? And so. That's really one of my passions. And, and, and thinking back to all the students over a 30 year period of time that I touched as an instructor in Taekwondo, was, it's very gratifying.
Kristiana Corona
And it's so interesting to also see that mindset applied at work because a lot of people think about, okay, I'm at this company, I support the people and then we part ways and never talk again or something. But I've also found that. You know, over time, across jobs, across careers, there's this, I don't know, it does feel like a sense of pride in being able to develop someone over time and to see them grow and gain those skills and have the wins.
Um, it's just such a wonderful feeling to be able to invest in people in different ways over time and have that kind of pay off as well.
Lisa W. Rogers
In my last job, I turned this team of basically Geek Squad, $20 an hour, guys into professional IT people, some of them couldn't handle it, didn't want it, and left.
And the others rose to the occasion. And there was one guy who really rose to the occasion. Very young guy. When I got him, he was two years outta school. And then I made him a lead, which gave him some responsibility for purchasing and some other things. And then after I left and the manager left, he got promoted to manager, and then SIM offered a scholarship.
A team member of one of the members that shows the most promise, and it was their emerging leadership program. It's about a $2,000 program, and they were gonna offer a scholarship to one person, and he won the scholarship and he got to do this emerging leader program. And now the company's been bought out.
He's got a job, a management job, or our leadership job in the new company. And it's just, I take the same pride in him that I do in my Taekwondo students when I see them succeed. I mean, he is, he, but he took it. The other guys didn't want it. Right. I gave them all the opportunity, but he took it and he ran with it and he developed and he kept running, kept out running his position, and he kept doing, there were others that took me up on it, and they had different paths, but he, he, he was just, he just really, and he, and he started to blossom when he had that responsibility.
Right. When he was actually able to do more. I talk about pushing my team to be everything they can be, and then I say and a little bit more than they think they can be. Right? You don't wanna stop at the status quo, and it's just joy to see how he's developed in his career.
Kristiana Corona
Yeah. Well said. I love that. All right, well just to maybe put a bow on our conversation today, I'm curious if you could maybe bottle up one lesson from your school and hand it to every new leader, what would it be and why?
Lisa W. Rogers
Passion. Because passion is your life philosophy, right? And it's your purpose in life. And when you're living integrated with your purpose in life, that's when great things happen. If everyone could feel that passion. You know, the saying that says, if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life, but you gotta find in any job, there's a way to find passion.
My passion is in service, right? I can do that in a number of different ways. At work with sim, with Taekwondo at the church. Wherever I am, I can be of service and I can live that passion. So. You don't have to necessarily be passionate for the job that you have, but you have to be passionate about something and bring that passion into work and bring your life's values and philosophies and everything that you are into that job. That would be, yeah, that would be probably the number one thing I'd want every leader to have.
Kristiana Corona
So as we've been talking just about service and what that really means to you across these different dimensions, you've also talked a little bit about your experience with the Sim Houston chapter, um, and really helping to nurture the next generation of tech leaders. So I'm curious, uh, you know, what really excites you about that work and how do you see your martial arts philosophy impacting service there?
Lisa W. Rogers
SIM has three pillars. One of them is networking, and it's, you know, having somebody in the room I can call when I have an it. Hey, who did you use for this? Who do you use for that?
That's great. A lot of organizations do that. Second pillar they have is service is outreach. They really believe in giving back to the community, both money and in time to help STEM programs in Houston area. And the third pillar is education and. I mentioned one of the people who worked for me in getting him into their emerging leaders program and again, of being of service to this next generation of leaders that are emerging.
They've got another program for young managers looking to go to the next level, even have an executive training if you're looking to get into the executive level. So. In terms of the outreach in Houston, we have three great organizations. We have more than three that we support. Three that I've been personally involved in.
One of them is Genesis works, which trains students in underserved areas during the summer before their senior year on how to conduct yourself in business, how to be in business, and all of the soft skills as well as either accounting or IT skills, and then they're put into paid internships their senior year, a large percentage go into college.
Those that don't go into college, SIM has also worked with them to develop an IT program where they can get certifications and still get into the field. Training and the a, I think they, I read that the average salary of somebody coming out of their program five years after they come outta the program is like 50,000 a year, which for people who had no choices before is an incredible program.
And I'm participating this Thursday and mock interviews. Well, we'll be giving them interviews. I've participated in networking events. I've, uh, you know, a lot of, you know, just times that they need people from the profession to come in and help their students, help educate 'em and networking. It was funny they said.
Don't you start the conversation. I know you know how to do it. Let them do it, and then if they're struggling, you can help 'em out. So it's really giving them opportunities to learn how to negotiate the business landscape better. And then Comp Adopt is about putting computers that companies no longer are using into the hands of people who would not otherwise not have a computer.
So we're actually. You know, enabling them to be tech savvy, which is gonna leave them behind if they don't have that. And then of course, the FITP program, which is Future IT practitioners, is a program from U University of Houston. I've participated in panels where they'll talk about different paths that they may take.
I've done speed dating where they come in, just talk to you for five minutes, can ask you anything they want. Participated in a lot of those panel discussions and social like. And then I've also mentored students. I had an incredible young lady that I mentored this last year. She and I developed a great relationship and she's, she's gonna do okay.
She's very nicely in her IT career. She's a dynamite young lady. And to see that, to be able to take, at my point in my career and to say to these students and say, here are the different paths you can take. Here's how can I help you? What can I tell you about my experience? How can I be of service? So those three programs especially, I've been very involved with.
In addition to the fundraising events, but personally involved in that, I've climbed into boxes of cables and sorted 'em out for Coffee Doc, and I've handed out computers to people and that's part of what makes SIM special and not just another. Networking organization for IT leaders.
Kristiana Corona
I love that. There's something beautiful too about just the idea of being able to pay it forward and having that built into your rhythm, just continuously paying it forward to the next generation. I mean, it sounds like it's such a big part of just who you are.
Lisa W. Rogers
Yes, and, and again, like in like in martial arts, by the time you're a master, as an instructor, you're mentoring.
Lisa W. Rogers
And so that's why they call it a master instructor. And so it's, it's, again, it's about you get to a certain level and it's time to pay it forward or pay it backwards or whatever, to pay back to the people who took time with you and encouraged you and made you see that you could actually do this. And there are some very important people in my life throughout martial arts that came into it at right moment to say, you can do this, and made me believe in myself. I owe that to the next generation of students coming up.
Kristiana Corona
And I think that everyone has something to teach others because you're always a few steps ahead of someone else on their journey. So even if you don't have 20 years of experience or 40 years of experience or whatever, it looks like you're still ahead of someone else and there's always something that you can give back.
Lisa W. Rogers
Yes, I agree with that.
Kristiana Corona
Awesome. Well, on that note, if our listeners would like to learn more about you, where would be the best place for them to find you and connect?
Lisa W. Rogers
Probably LinkedIn, but be patient because, 'cause uh, you know, it, there are a lot of people who try to connect with me on LinkedIn, but LinkedIn is a very good way and if you're good enough you can find my email address off of LinkedIn.
Kristiana Corona
Challenge accepted. Um, we also have the articles that you've written, which are really lovely, and we'll make sure and put those in the show notes for people so that they can go back and read a little bit more about some of these values that you, that you describe and the stories that are in there. Some really great stories. Uh, it's just a, it's such a pleasure to read, um, and also just get to know you a little bit better and hear how all of this comes to life. Uh, for leadership.
Lisa W. Rogers
Thank you very much. I have enjoyed it.
