Craig Nishizaki:
My manager at the time said, you're terrible at this. And I said, well, why don't you fire me then if I'm so bad? And what he said really lit a fire under me. He said, I would fire you, but I'm worried that we would get sued for discrimination. And I thought, wow, that's what you think of me? And so I decided I was gonna prove him wrong.
Kristiana Corona
Ever feel like everyone else has leadership figured out and you're just making it up as you go? I've been there. I spent two decades leading design and technology teams at Fortune 500 companies, and for years, I looked like I had everything pulled together on the outside, but on the inside, I felt burned out, overwhelmed, and unworthy of the title leader.
Then a surprise encounter with executive coaching changed my life and dramatically improved my leadership style and my results. Now I help others make that same shift in their leadership. This podcast is where we do the work, building the mindset, the coaching skills, and the confidence to lead with clarity and authenticity, and to finally feel worthy to lead from the inside out.
Welcome back to The Worthy To Lead podcast. I'm your host, Christiana Corona. Today's conversation is about leadership in the middle of chaos. My guest, Craig Nishizaki, has experienced more than his fair share of chaos. Early in his career, he faced being overlooked for promotions. He navigated difficult leaders, and he even went seven months without pay.
While his family was expecting their first child, there were moments where he had to decide whether to stay quiet. Whether to walk away or to stand up for his values. In this conversation, we talk about what calm leadership really looks like when everything around you feels uncertain and the role that adversity plays in shaping the kind of leader you become.
Craig also shares the lessons he's learned along the way that eventually led him to become the co-owner of UpTop, a successful UX design agency, and how he now works to build a culture of trust and grounded leadership for his team. If you've ever found yourself navigating difficult leadership situations, questioning whether to stay or move on, or wondering how to lead well when things feel chaotic, I think you'll find a lot of wisdom in Craig's journey.
So let's dive in. Hello and welcome, Craig. So glad to have you on the Worthy to Lead Podcast.
Craig Nishizaki:
Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk with you.
Kristiana Corona:
So, um, before we jump into our topic that I've introduced for our listeners, I just wanna give them a quick bio because they may not know you yet. Craig Nishizaki is the head of business at UpTop and a leader in the UX industry with over 17 years of experience working at the intersection of business, technology, and design.
He's partnered with organizations like Amazon, Microsoft, F5, and SAP, concur, to guide complex digital initiatives. Craig brings a unique perspective from the business side of ux, helping companies to use user experience and digital strategy to create clarity, reduce friction, and drive meaningful outcomes, especially in times of complexity and change.
And that's really one of the reasons why I wanted to bring Craig on this show, because we've had a lot of conversations about what does it look like to lead well and to lead with calm in this era where everything is constantly changing. So I'd love it if we can, Craig, to jump into your story before we jump into our topic today.
When people see you. They probably see a very calm and confident leader, someone who has, you know, gone through everything and really come out on the top. But your path to get there wasn't always easy. And you have told me before that you faced discrimination, you had opportunities for promotion that got missed.
There was financial pressure, there was uncertainty. So what were some of those early experiences that really shaped how you lead today?
Craig Nishizaki:
Thanks. That's a great question. You know, from early days I wanted to be successful, and when I went to college, the first year I went to college at the University of Washington, I commuted and realized that.
You know, I need to be successful. I needed to make connections. I needed to make the community smaller. It was a really large school. And so the second year I decided to join a fraternity. And in that process, you know, as you're going through it, as a young person, you're like, Hey, do I want to be in the most popular fraternity or one that has different attributes?
And I was attracted to an organization that had more of a leadership focus and uh, was able to. Meet some mentors in the alumni. And so mentorship was one of the first things that really helped me start to develop some leadership skills. And one of my mentors said early on that the person you'll be, uh, in five years is really dependent on the books you read and the association of who you associate with.
So they gave me some books to start a reading list if you'll, and said, Hey, read 15 to 30 minutes every day. I, I didn't do it early on, but probably my senior year, junior, senior year, I started really getting into that. And, um, he was right. The, you know, the books you read and the people you associate with are gonna dictate your future.
And then, you know, also kind of getting out of your comfort zone early on were some of the things that shaped my experience prior to going out into the working world, if you will. So choosing to either face your discomfort or run away from it, I think that's kind of a daily choice that all of us have.
At an early age, you know, my mentors were challenging me to face those uncomfortable moments.
Kristiana Corona:
I love that. So it sounds like even from your first educational experiences in college, there was always this focus on personal development. There was always this focus on how do I develop myself as a leader?
That's pretty impressive when most people in college are, you know, partying or thinking about, like, how do I go have fun every weekend? That's a pretty impressive, mature point of view.
Craig Nishizaki:
I don't know if it's, uh, necessarily mature at that time, but it was necessary. I grew up in the south end of Seattle. I went to Rainier Beach High School, which isn't known for producing academic success.
It was more like if you're gonna be an NBA basketball player, there was a number of those guys that came out of that school. And you know, the success in our neighborhood was people did have some family businesses and things like that, but I realized that I needed to break out of my geography. Or my neighborhood, or my sphere of my group that I was with my tribe.
And so then when I started meeting people that had created success in their life and they told me what they did, I, I felt like I should at least listen, you know, and if I really wanted to be successful and so, and, and learn from them and take action on it. So, I don't know if it was necessarily mature at the time, it might have been more like aselfish desire that then, you know, evolved over time.
Kristiana Corona:
Selfish desire or ambition, hard work, dedication. You know, you choose your words.
Craig Nishizaki:
Yeah.
Kristiana Corona:
So when you were early in your career, I know that you started off in a really tough place, which is cold calling, uh, a job that probably most of us would run the other way from.
Um, and as an introvert, that was a really tough job, right? But yet. You decided to go through that job and stick with it and somehow master that craft. So I'm curious what helped you to kind of push through the discomfort of that role instead of walking away and doing something different?
Craig Nishizaki:
Yeah, that's a great question too.
Um, so coming out of college, I wanted to own my own business, and my cousins up in Calgary had been very successful business owners. They had an interior architecture firm that did very well, and so I would ask them questions about owning a business, running a business, and they kept telling me, you need to learn how to sell like professional sales.
And at that time it was in the eighties, professional sales where you could get training. Um, there was either pharmaceutical medical sales, but I wasn't, uh, I didn't have the pedigree to go down that path. Those companies would hire people that came out of certain schools, out of certain organizations, et cetera.
And I just wasn't part of that. And so the, uh, another opportunity or industry would've been office equipment. At the time, copiers, fax machines, sprinters, things like that. And those companies had great sales training. Although it was a tough industry, uh, you're on straight commission. The average salesperson would last like 73 days.
And to your point, I was introvert, and I just wasn't good at it at first. I had a little bit of. Low self-esteem. The cold calling just scared me to death. And so I had to trick myself to start getting out of my comfort zone. So I stopped wearing a watch so that I would walk up to people and ask of what time it was, because I knew what time my appointment was, and I had my little planner book at the time.
It wasn't all on a iPhone. And uh, I would say, Hey, uh. My name's Craig, can you tell me what time it is? I need to be at this place by this time. And they would tell me, and I'd say, Hey, thanks a lot. And I'd ask them their name, uh, or I would walk into an elevator and say hello. Walk in, look at a person, say hello, introduce myself, and then turn around.
Super awkward. Really kind of weird if you will. But it started training me to. Be uncomfortable and be in those situations where I had to be a little outside of my zone. And then as I was working in the industry a little longer, you know, I still wasn't very successful at it. 'cause I, I still wasn't great, and I'm still not great at making cold calls and cold intros.
But my manager at the time said, you know, you're terrible at this. And he was, he was not really encouraging. And I said, well. Why don't you fire me then if I'm so bad? And what he said really lit a fire under me. He said, I would fire you, but I'm worried that we would get sued for discrimination. And I thought, wow.
So now that's what you think of me. And so I decided I was gonna prove him wrong. And I took $1,500 out of my savings account, $1,500. I really couldn't afford to use and I invested in sales training, and I spent a year learning the craft of professional sales while still working there and still working for that manager.
And you know, that was the whole point of, I know what you think of me, and I don't wanna prove you wrong, is just the stubbornness of it. And then within that year, I became one of the top salespeople on his team and in that organization for our level, for our group. And so I started having some success and getting more confident with what I was doing.
Kristiana Corona:
Can we just pause for one moment and recognize that's an incredible response to that situation? You had a lot of different options for how you could have handled that manager and what they said. And you chose to use it as fuel. And not only that, you chose to just double down and say, I'm gonna even put my own money on the line because I know I can figure this out.
Craig Nishizaki:
Yeah. Well, you know, it's, it's part of the fear. I think it's the fear of, for me, it's the fear of, you know, letting someone be right about me. Right. Like you, you kind of write your own history, if you will. And so in that person's mind, if they're like, God, Craig is terrible and I quit, then he's right. And I didn't wanna give him that power.
Kristiana Corona:
I think there's so much at play from a psychology standpoint when we think about people's words and the impact that they have on us, and something inside of you had to override the automatic response to believe that person knew what they were talking about and say, no, no, you don't. You don't know me.
You don't know what I'm capable of. I'm gonna, in fact go on to lead this department, uh, in sales. I just think that's astonishing. And I, I'm sure that that pattern probably showed up for you at different moments in your career, right? Like where you had someone pushed back on you.
Craig Nishizaki:
Yeah. Yeah. It's repeated a few times.
Kristiana Corona:
So when you went on to learn some of these techniques. Obviously, you put in a lot of hard work. What was it that really clicked that helped you to start overcoming that, that introversion or that pattern that had been happening before, where the cold calling wasn't working? Like what ended up being the thing that made it work for you?
Craig Nishizaki:
There was a senior salesperson named Arthur Nelson that worked at the same company, and I sat in the bullpen. You know, think of it like on those Wall Street. Movies and things where you see a bunch of desks and phones, and he was in there one day, like he was the only salesperson in there that was a senior rep, and he was just calling people, and some folks had, you know, hung up or disconnected or whatever.
And afterward, I just talked to him and said, Hey, how do you do that? You're so confident, calm all this. And he said, because I believe that I'm providing them with the best possible solution, and they would be dumb not to listen to me. And so he framed it differently, and that really resonated with me because then I didn't feel like I was inconveniencing them or interrupting them.
I had good news to share, if you will, and it was just me needing to get a chance to share that news with them or find out what their situation was. And the other thing was more asking question than telling people. And so I feel like you could tell the intelligence and the expertise of a person by the questions they asked more so than the answers they give.
And the way he approached things really made sense to me. And so that clicked. And the second thing that clicked with me was. Learning your product and solutions and learning the competition so well that you could, I called it drop landmines. Um, so that the person you were talking to, it's almost like they felt like you, you knew their issues before they did, or you could see around corners for them.
And so I took that from that job. I took that mentality on to all the other things I've done since. But those are two things that really clicked.
Kristiana Corona:
I love that kind of change in motivation, if you will. Your why for doing this shifted pretty significantly from I'm the bad guy, and I'm inconveniencing you to, I have great news.
I can't wait to share this with you. What a different energy that creates. And I think that's true in a lot of cases, right? Like, there's a lot of different scenarios in which we come in, and if we assume. I don't know if this is gonna go well. I am doubting myself. I don't know if I'm prepared. Uh oh, by the way, they probably don't wanna hear from me.
Yeah. If we have all of that sort of negative chatter in our mind going in, what is our energy gonna look like? Right. Versus. I cannot wait to tell you about something so exciting.
Craig Nishizaki:
Yeah, and, and you know, for, in, uh, more recent days, there, uh, Blair Enns who wrote the Win Without Pitching Manifesto, he has a saying, he calls it the Jedi Mindset, which I've really like attached myself to, and it's, I am the expert.
I'm the prize. I'm here to help you, but I could only do that if you allow me to lead. Not everyone's gonna follow, and that's okay. And it's just this little mantra that you could say to yourself before you have a call or before you have a big meeting, uh, and walk in with confidence because to your point, it's reframing your picture of you.
So you go from immortal to being immortal, if you will. Uh, in that moment.
Kristiana Corona:
That is really fun. I'm gonna steal that. And it reminds me a lot of coaching from a, a mindset of how do we help people to think about or visualize the future that they want for themselves? You know, how do you very clearly. Tell yourself, okay, this is what that looks like.
This is how that person's gonna feel. This is what I'm gonna deliver. And really, truly get into that mindset so that when you walk in, you are living into exactly the experience you wanna create, which is really cool. Alright, so you also were telling me before about. This sort of hamster wheel situation where, you know, you were working at this job, and you were working so hard, and you felt like you were just running and running and running and running, but not making progress.
And a mentor told you that it was called a hamster wheel job. So what helped you to recognize that situation, and what did it take for you to leave?
Craig Nishizaki:
Yeah, the hamster wheel. You know, a lot of people don't know we're on a hamster wheel. You just are working hard. You feel like you're making. Progress. But if you actually stopped running, you would just flip, you know, just be chaos.
And so what that looked like for me was in that same company, uh, I was getting passed over for promotions. And it turned out that the sales manager that I had, the one that told me I was terrible, and then I became a valuable part of his team. He was praising me to my face. But then I found out that in the sales management meetings, he was speaking poorly of me, so that when promotions came up, I was always looked over in that sense.
So one of my mentors at that time was the. Sales coach for that organization, and we became very good friends and he shared that with me that what was happening, and I was young, so I was kind of dumbstruck like, why would that guy, why would my manager do that to me? And what the realization was I was making his life too easy.
Like he was not incented to help me with my career growth. He was incented to have his team perform to, you know, meet quota and how better to do that than to have Craig run the sales meetings, teach the demos, go out and shadow the other salespeople and help them so that he could scale himself.
Right. And at the time, my ego was being stroked, like, oh, I'm getting all this responsibility and all that, but stroking your ego doesn't pay your bills, if you will. Right. I had to learn that, you know, that wasn't the right path for me there. And what it took for me to recognize this was, uh, one of the people on my team, Larry, he quit and he got a job at a startup telecom company.
And so I went to that company to, to save him, you know, from making a bad decision. And when I went, I ended up meeting with our leadership. I didn't realize they were interviewing me while I was talking to them, asking them all these questions about their business, thinking Larry made a bad choice. And then when I was wrapping up with them, they offered me a job and paying basically double what we were making at the other place.
And I didn't recognize my situation until I saw something else, right? I didn't have that perspective. And once I had that perspective, I thought, okay, now it's time for me to leave because. I see what's available, and I know what's happening behind the scenes, and I'm not gonna have an opportunity at where I'm at, so I'm gonna leave.
And the irony of that is, after I left, a number of the other salespeople on that team reached out and asked, Hey, where are you and Larry at? What are you doing? And I just told them. And then all of a sudden they're all coming over to interview and we weren't recruiting them or anything, but I think they felt like, wow, if those guys.
Thought it was a good opportunity. Maybe I should check it out.
Kristiana Corona:
Isn't it amazing the opportunities that are out there for us, but oftentimes we just can't see 'em because we're so focused in what we're doing right now, and especially when that comes to being in an. Somewhat toxic work environment, and I'm not saying where you were was toxic, but there are a lot of people who are in work environments where they just feel so stressed and so squeezed and not supported by their leader, and they think, well, I have to do this.
This is the only option I have. I have to pay my bills, and just being able to, you know, explore what else is out there and see other ways of working. Um, it can really be eye-opening, and a lot of times you realize how much weight you were carrying on your shoulders that you didn't know.
Craig Nishizaki:
Yeah. Yep.
Kristiana Corona:
All right. So you were talking about that in that particular job, uh, the manager who was, you know, stroking your ego and giving you lots of responsibility. What a wonderful thing. So before you were promoted or as you were in that job, you were training new sales reps, you were leading meetings, you were helping your manager to run the team.
I'm curious just. What that experience itself taught you about leading, even though you didn't have a title?
Craig Nishizaki:
It's a double-edged sword, really. I think what it taught me was when you get good at something, whatever it is, or you overcome something and become known for that, people will seek you out and they'll ask you questions.
How did you do that? What do you doing? And things like that. And that's influence and not title. Right. And when your leadership tells your peers that they're gonna give you added responsibilities. That's getting edified by them saying that you, you are qualified to help. And so some people will follow, and some people will push back.
Um, just human nature. And for me, I was an individual contributor, yet I was kind of in a position to help lead other people or train other people or help grow other people. And so. That's when I realized those ego strokes don't pay the bills. Right? Um, my most com valuable commodity is time because I was spending time helping them be successful, and then I was actually suffering for it.
But through that, because I was doing it alongside of my peers, I built trust with them, I had integrity with them, and then that's what really created influence. So I learned that lesson, right, is when you're helping other people out. You're a person of your word. And you gain trust with them over time, then you have influence.
Kristiana Corona:
Yeah. You, you mentioned the word integrity, and there's a lot of moments where I think about your response or how you handled these different situations, and there there was a lot of integrity to it, like even just situations throughout your career where you didn't get the promotion, or someone wasn't fair to you.
Or you weren't being supported the way you needed to, and yet you still showed up with integrity. Why show up with integrity? What's in it for you if you show up that way?
Craig Nishizaki:
It's kinda all you have, right? Like your name, who you are, how you're known. I learned long time ago this idea about believing in yourself.
So who I am, what I'm in, and where I'm going. And at times when life gets hard, or things are challenging. Those beliefs may get rocked a bit, but they have to be like deep enough and foundational enough that you can bounce back from those um, moments. And there's an alumnus from my fraternity named Jerry Nelson that was a mentor to thousands of young men, as well as business leaders that he knew, and he taught a, uh, course at this leadership academy called Winners versus Losers.
And in that, he said, wow, you're either one or the other. And you know, unfortunately, like I have young kids that play sports and you know, there's also winners, losers, and participants, right? But in life, oftentimes, how you show up is either as a winner or a loser in your situation. And what he said is, the only thing that you control is your ethics and your attitude.
And everything else is outside of your control. So in those moments when you've been wronged, in those moments where you feel you've been unfairly treated or life isn't fair, how do you show up? And, um, that's our choice, right? And so my family, we've expanded that to this acrostic or this, this idea of being great.
So having gratitude, having resilience, our effort, having the best attitude, and being a great teammate. And so that's how I wanna show up every day. Um, that's how I wanna teach my kids to show up. My, my wife is the same in that sense. And so if you hear of, you know, oh, I know Craig and she's Aki, or, you know, I want the people to have that feeling of trust because I've earned it.
Kristiana Corona:
Earned. I love that and I love that you made it into a family mantra. That's amazing. You brought up something, too around just how you show up. One place or how you show up in one situation is how you show up everywhere. How you're known in one place is how you're known everywhere.
And I think sometimes leaders get a mistaken view that they have to be one thing at work, uh, or be something they're not at work, and then they can be themselves in other C circumstances or whatnot. But there's something really powerful about people knowing that you're gonna show up. As who you are with the same integrity, with the same ethics, with the same compassion, being a team player, whatever all of those values are, you're gonna be that person, whether it's at work, whether it's with your family, whether it's in your community, whether it's with a perfect stranger, right?
And that is really important, that aspect of being the same person, being authentic, and having those values consistently across domains.
Craig Nishizaki:
Thanks. When I was younger, that was a lot harder for me because I wasn't sure of who I was. Let's say I wanted to climb the career ladder, and so then, depending on who your leader is that you're working with and your peers, you kind of morph yourself.
And as I've grown older and really. Gotten more solid about who I am and what I'm in and where I'm going, and those things, then it hasn't been as challenging. Um, and I think going through those hard things really helped refine that for me.
Kristiana Corona:
Yeah, it's always a process, right, of determining what's in and what's out for me. Speaking of hard times, there was a period where you went through in your career deferred seven months of pay at the time where your wife was pregnant and you were gonna have your first child, just assuming. But, imagining being in that situation, what an enormous amount of stress and pressure that must have put on you.
So I'm curious what that was like and what kind of carried you through that really challenging period.
Craig Nishizaki:
Yeah, that's, you know, it's funny, and when I look back on it, I discount how hard it was at the moment. But as I've been thinking about it more, you know, there was, um, so I was working for an agency. I was responsible for new business development.
The agency was having financial problems, and so I was on the leadership team. There was a feeling of responsibility and shame to some extent that, hey, we don't have more business coming in, or the business that we had, we were having a hard time collecting. Those things are not my collecting was not my responsibility, but I looked around, and I saw people working for us.
I wanted to make sure they were being paid, and when I say us, I took like this ownership mentality. Well, really, I had a minority stake. In that business. But I felt responsible as being on the leadership team to represent that organization, that company. And as a husband, I felt like I was failing, right?
Because we're digging into our savings to pay the bills, expecting dad, like I need to create some stability in our household. And here I am in a situation where we're not, but we needed the health insurance. And if I was to leave. At that time, there was like a 90-day probationary period with most companies, and so there would've been a gap.
And so I had to weigh out the gap of, do I just stick with it, hope that these guys are gonna make me whole, make us whole at the end of the day financially, because we need the in the insurance. And I relied on my strengths, which is if you put me in a room with 10 other people, I'm gonna outwork you.
I'll work until you can't work anymore. Like, and my ability to handle stress is very high. And so I always felt like those were my strengths, but what I've also found is my weaknesses, you know, are, uh, loyalty. Where I trust someone, trust their word, and then I stay there too long, let's say, or my fears of starting over or fears of disappointing other people, you know.
Had to wrestle with that, and realize those things. In fact, you know, buying the business that we own now, partially, was fear of starting over, but that motivated us to do something, you know, and so that was a tough period. And then also, you know, having to earn my wife's trust back over time. You know, you put us in a bad situation there.
We didn't get paid for a period of time. Am I gonna trust that you can handle our finances? Those things. They weren't spoken, but they were felt by me. I don't know that she believed that, but the enemy inside my head was telling me those things, you know, so it was tough.
Kristiana Corona:
It's a really vulnerable place to be, and it's a really brave thing to talk about.
Because I think a lot of people would just keep it behind the scenes. They would never say anything. It's all about how do I look like I've always been successful. How do I look like I've always had the answers, and I really appreciate that about you that. You know, you're not trying to paint a shiny picture of your leadership story like you've been through the trenches, you've made mistakes.
You've had to step back, move maybe a few steps forward and a few steps back, and it just hasn't been a straight line. But each of those situations, like you've even told me about situations where, you know, you went through difficult organizational changes, you were acquired, you even went through like an earthquake situation as a leader, and I just have to think that all of these situations, all of these challenges, all of these times where you had to win people's trust back and you had to work really hard to, to get back on track for yourself, had a big part to do with the calm leadership that you have now, you know?
And so I'm curious if you were to kind of think about the thread of those experiences and what they mean for you when it comes to being a calm you know, leader that you are today. How do those things relate to the leader you are today?
Craig Nishizaki:
I've never been in the military, but if you ever meet somebody that has been in leadership, in combat, they have like, you just kind of know they can handle certain things, you know? And just in life, if you've been through a lot of tough things and you've come through it on the other end, when you hear certain people complain about things, you're like, yeah, that's a first world problem.
That's really not that big a deal. You have to empathize with them and hear them, 'cause it's a big deal to them. Right. And similar to your work experience and life experience, if it's a T shape or you've seen a lot of things and you go really deep in certain areas, then when something comes up, you are more calm because you have the confidence that you've already experienced that.
Right. And so, like the earthquake story I had told you about, it was in Seattle in 2001. There was the NI quality earthquake. It was, I don't know, close to seven, maybe six point something. And we were on the 67th floor of the Columbia Tower, which is the tallest building in Seattle. And there was probably 10 people in the office.
And I was on a conference call, and all of a sudden the building went boom, boom, like something hit it, and then it started shaking, like airplane turbulence. And um, so I looked down the hall, and I see the architectural glasses flexing in and out. On the inside, not the outside windows, but the inside. And so I realized, okay, it's an earthquake.
And I just ran around the office real quick, and I said, Hey, let's all go into the kitchen. And there was some people that were freaking out, so they're not thinking clearly, right? And so I'm like, okay, as a kid, what'd they tell you to do? Right? Go find the center of the structure where there's no glass.
You know, and, um, if it's your time, it's your time kind of thing. And gathered everyone up, got us all into the kitchen, like tried to slow down your breathing, looking out the window. We saw the hospital that's up on the hill, go by us like this. It was really crazy. And then it stopped. And what I got from that, which I didn't know at the time, was if you're calm about the stuff, you can slow things down enough to be able to process it.
If you're freaking out, you can't. And so if you're the leader, if you will, the person that everyone's looking to, then your responsibility is to like calm everyone down so they can process and take action. And, you know, we all got out of it fine. We laugh about it because. We were stuck up there for, I don't know, maybe four or five hours, 'cause the elevators had been shut down. But you know, we had snacks in the fridge and all that stuff, and so we just hung out. But there's, you know, other situations in life obviously and in business, and again, so in times of chaos, just being grounded in your values, your beliefs, your actions, so that integrity and trust.
And then all the things that you've been through, your experiences, your preparation, adversity that you've overcome. Those are all parts of gaining confidence. And so being calm to me has always been grounded confidence. Like you're grounded and you're confident, and that's who people look to for help.
Right? So you can't be a leader and then play the victim card, like, and you've probably seen that in your career, like especially when it comes to, uh, layoffs or. Changes in organizational, uh, focus and priorities, and human nature is to not be the one that gets blamed for things, I think. And so you see some leaders play the victim card, and to me, once you do that, you're not a leader anymore.
Kristiana Corona:
Yeah. I think there's, there's the mindset of woe is me, this is happening to me, or, okay, this is happening. How do I wanna respond to this? What are people expecting of me right now? One is inward focused, the other is outward focused. Thinking about others, thinking about what they need, I think, too, uh, it's interesting when you talk about situations that.
A lot of people feel strongly about or have a hard time with, and how, for example, when you experience a layoff situation, but you didn't get laid off and now you're inside the company and you're thinking, how do we, how do we have these conversations? How do we rally? How do we hear people you know, and.
How they're feeling and create a safe environment for people to process what just happened, 'cause it's grief, it's really grief in some cases. And you know, if you're bent on yourself and how you wanna handle things, you often don't think about what the other people need in that moment and what is gonna get the team.
Back to the place where they're gonna be productive. You know, you cement right over it, or you just keep moving forward. You're like, okay, everyone, put that aside now, let's move forward. Um, but that's not really how it works. Right. And so one of the things that I remember doing quite a bit when we would go through organizational change, and layoffs is creating that space for people and allowing them to just not be okay to work through.
What does it look like to have survivor's guilt? I'm still here. I still have a job. I'm still employed, and someone else isn't like, what do we do with those feelings? How do we turn it into something productive and not sabotage ourselves or not tell ourselves stories that aren't helpful, where we can't then go on to to be productive members of that company anymore?
Craig Nishizaki:
That's hard.
Kristiana Corona:
It is. But again, I think it comes back to your point of who do you wanna be in that moment as a leader, what does it look like to live into your integrity and your values? And you're like, okay, if I'm somebody who creates safe spaces for people and I wanna show up as a leader that is caring and empathetic and also, you know, understands the mission of the organization, then I need to be that person even though I'm not okay right now.
Craig Nishizaki:
Right.
Kristiana Corona:
So, okay, let's shift gears a little bit. Um, I wanna talk about your current leadership role. So you spent several years building businesses before you eventually became the co-owner of UpTop, which is the UX agency. Um, so I'm curious if you can just tell Li listeners who aren't familiar, what is UpTop?
And now that you are the leader of that organization, what are you doing to build that culture and that leadership environment that you really wanna see for their career?
Craig Nishizaki:
So UpTop is a user experience strategy, product design, and custom development agency. And we specialize in UX modernization for.
Technology services companies, and in our mind, UX modernization, that's the practice of reimagining and transforming the outdated digital tools, platforms, and experiences that those companies have into modern. Intuitive and business aligned solutions so that they can empower the people and scale their service delivery.
And I mean, in a nutshell, we help them sell more, sell faster, and be more profitable by doing that. And in my role as the head of business and my co-owner, my business partner, Michael Wu, his role is as the head of ux. He's really doing a lot of. Thinking around the service offerings we have, the delivery model, and the people and the tools that we're using and things like that, and making sure that we're providing outcomes for our clients, but also great customer experience along the way for our clients, and we overlap in the customer experience part and the managing of the organization.
My role as the head of business is account acquisition, account direction, uh, finance strategy, making sure that we're, um, operating the business well, what we were at the company for 10 and 11 years prior to buying the business from the previous owner. And, uh, we operated the business the day-to-day of the business, probably for the last maybe six or seven years prior to buying it.
So we knew the how tos and the how-not-tos of running an agency. But once we took over, we were able to kind of put our own f footprint or our not footprint, our own, uh, fingerprint on, on, on the business. And for me, as I was learning leadership, one of the books and the frameworks that I learned that I loved is the 360-degree leader.
And for us, uh, as a business and as a consultant to other businesses, um, we've always felt that leadership. Is really a differentiator for us in terms of how we show up and what we do. And so we built out kind of a framework around, uh, how we lead with influence. And so, uh, like our guiding belief is that leadership is about influence and not titles.
That leadership is the force that converts good craft into business outcomes. And that our real job as consultants is to create impact and lasting value for our clients. So that's like at the top level of our beliefs, or you could say at the core of our beliefs. And then from there we talk about how do we do that?
And a 360-degree leader, it's leading up, leading across, and leading down. And that's the, um, the book is written by John Maxwell. Um, um. His methodology on that. And so when we're in an organization and we actually built a playbook that we'll give to a client, um, that can actually share with you, uh, if you'd like, but we talk about leading up.
So that's supporting leadership and sponsors in the organization. Leading cross would be collaborating with peers and teams, and then leading down would be empowering teams and users. And so the idea behind all this is that we're helping you to align with your priorities, solve problems, not create problems, and make you successful as a leader.
And then when we're working collaboratively across cross-functionally, it's co-creating, not competing. It's um, building bridges across silos. Fostering trust and respect. And then when we're working with teams, uh, with, uh, individual contributors on the teams, it's modeling best practices, building capabilities, and championing end users.
And so our belief behind that is that, uh, and what we tell people and what it's kind of a tagline is, uh, we don't just work with you. We lead with you. And so the result of that is. 98% of our clients take us with them when they get promoted or move to the next role. And that's been great for our business and it's part of how we measure the success.
We're doing, we're doing,
Kristiana Corona:
I love that you have a specific tagline. We don't just work with you, we lead with you. And that is evidence-based. That is how you let customers know that this is what they can expect when they work with you, which is different from every other agencies, right? Like, not every agency is gonna come in and say, I will lead with you.
Like, I will help you to become better at what you all are doing and to show the kind of leadership that you wanna be showing as well. Um, that's a really interesting way of thinking about your work.
Craig Nishizaki:
Yeah. It's aspirational and not everyone's gonna follow, and that's okay.
Kristiana Corona:
Yeah.
Craig Nishizaki: You know, just like that mantra said.
Kristiana Corona:
Yeah. And I think it also. There's another touch point on what you've been talking about this whole time, which is we're not just showing up, and things are happening randomly. There's an intention here. There's an intention, there's a set of values, there's an integrity. This is what you can expect from me and my organization when we show up, and this is.
You know, we'll help you to develop that for yourself. So I love that it's sort of, it's not only just focused on how you operate, but it's also helping to develop those strengths in other organizations too.
Craig Nishizaki:
Yeah, and by having that out there, then when new folks join our team, they know the expectation and the language is the same, and so they're able to ramp up and walk in those footprints, if you will.
Kristiana Corona:
And I think that's one of the strengths, for example, at Amazon, and I know, uh, you and I worked together when, when you were at am, uh, working with Amazon Building culture, it's a language, it's a shared set of values. It is a repetition of being able to say those things, and like, what is it that we believe?
Can you actually say it out loud? Can you even remember it? Or is it just, you know, part of a manual that sits in your desk or in your drawer? Um, and it sounds like the way that you operate is really to live that out and to have everyone in the ecosystem. From your clients to your employees, to the business as a whole.
They know this, and it's a working cultural model.
Craig Nishizaki:
Yeah. That's our goal.
Kristiana Corona:
Yeah. And then, you know, who's out, who do I not wanna work with? Right. Who's not gonna be a good fit.
Craig Nishizaki:
And that's, you know, that was a big change in our business from the previous ownership. Uh, up until about 2018 or so. His point, the CEO's point of view was, we're super smart.
We've seen a lot, we can solve anything. But my point of view and Mike's point of view was those are true statements, but we wanna find right fit clients with right fit projects, that we're gonna work together and create lasting value and lasting relationships. You know, the relationship is a result of the, the success that you've created for them. It's the, it's not the starting point.
Kristiana Corona:
A hundred percent. I love that. So maybe just to wrap us up for this conversation, which has been wonderful, and I really appreciate you sharing all of your personal stories and sort of the lessons that you've learned along the way. When you look back at the setbacks and the adversity that you faced, what did those experiences ultimately teach you about the kind of leader that you're becoming?
Craig Nishizaki:
I think you said it previously. Is I wanna show up as a whole person, you know, as the same type of leader in my all areas of my life, my business as a husband, as a father, as a coach, a volunteer, a friend, you know, in my community. And to do that first step is I need to be reliable. You know, I have to be a person of my word.
Show up when I say I'm gonna show up, uh, if I'm not gonna be able to be there. Let you know all those things that seemed like 1 0 1. But in my mind or in my experience, seemed like those are lost characteristics amongst a lot of people. But then, being a person of your word, being reliable, having integrity, and then from there, building trust.
Because, in what I think is trust is something that is evaporating right before our eyes, and you see it with ai. You know, you see it with news, you see it with social media, you see it in your personal life, of what can I believe or who can I believe? Is this true? And so being people that have integrity and build trust, I think, is gonna be a big differentiator in life in general.
And so I, that's why I feel like that's so important. And then having experienced setbacks, hardships, et cetera. Has allowed me to be more empathetic to other people's situations. You know, I think a lot of people are Olympic athletes at the sport of jumping to conclusions, and they don't give people grace and the benefit of the doubt.
And I know that sometimes people may get frustrated with me if I see something that has happened and I'm still asking, well, let's dig a little deeper to find out why before I jump to conclusions and get really upset about something. I think that a lot of people want you to react. You know, they want to see the fiery side of this person, but I wanna understand what happened, like why did this happen?
And then if it means that that's gonna cause me to be angry, yeah, fine. But I wanna understand first, and then I think that for my kids and you know, as well as I believe that being a problem solver. And a thought partner and being the go-to guy for me is those are all the things that I wanna be known for.
And so those are all part of my leadership.
Kristiana Corona:
If I could just bottle you up right now and tell my audience, Hey, here's a really great example of what it looks like to develop your leadership with intention. Like, you know how you wanna show up, you know who you are and who you aren't, like you're not.
You're not going to get clicks on TikTok, right? But based on your emotional responses to each situation, you've got much longer-term, more important metrics that you consider successful when it comes to leadership and how you wanna show up with your family and how you wanna role model for your kids.
Right? Um, and I just think that's amazing, and I appreciate all of that. And I think you're right. You know, we are in a trust recession. And the more things that are created without a human involved, the easier it's going to be for people to show up in ways that aren't actually authentic with the real human that's behind it.
And so I think being aware of that and also knowing who am I? How, how will Craig show up in the real world? And being sure that your online presence mirrors that as well. Again, is not something that is just trying to get clicks. Um, I think that's a really great point. All right, so if people want to hear more from you, where should they go to find you?
Craig Nishizaki:
You can find me on LinkedIn and I think we'll have the link there, but it should be craignishizaki as my handle. Uh, you'll find UpTop website at www.uptopcorp.com and you'll find our YouTube. Channel, which has some podcasts, it has some short videos, things like that. And hopefully we'll be doing more of those things now that we're working on the business, not just in the business. Um, so those are the main places that you'll find me.
Kristiana Corona:
Well, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day. I know you've got a lot going on, but this has been a really wonderful conversation and I've really enjoyed hearing your stories and just learning a little bit more about the leadership that I've seen on the outside and kind of where that came from. So thank you.
Craig Nishizaki:
Yeah, thanks for inviting me. This was a great conversation. Just really appreciate it.
Kristiana Corona: I think Craig is amazing. If this episode resonated, I'd love for you to subscribe. Leave us a review and share this with a leader who needs a boost of support as they overcome adversity. As always, keep showing up.
Keep doing the work that matters and keep leading like you're worthy to lead because you are. I will see you next time.
