Greg Bro:
I thought about, well, if these things are important to you, helping other people being creative storytelling, not being in a Zoom meeting all day is another kind of Brady Bunch Square in the grid of faces. I thought about, well, what do I wanna build?
Kristiana Corona:
Ever feel like everyone else has leadership figured out, and you're just making it up as you go. I've been there. I spent two decades leading design and technology teams at 4, 10, 500 companies, and for years I looked like I had everything pulled together on the outside, but on the inside, I felt burned out, overwhelmed, and unworthy of the title leader. Then a surprise encounter with executive coaching changed my life and dramatically improved my leadership style and my results.
Now I help others make that same shift in their leadership. This podcast is where we do the work, building the mindset, the coaching skills, and the confidence to lead with clarity and authenticity, and to finally feel worthy to lead from the inside out.
Hi, and welcome back to The Worthy To Lead podcast. I'm your host, Kristiana Corona. Have you ever wrestled with the question. What happens when the identity that I have built for my entire career needs to shift or maybe gets taken away? You're often left asking something a lot deeper. Who am I now and what do I even wanna be doing with my life?
So many leaders, after decades of building mastery, have an identity that is tightly intertwined with their title, their role, and the sense of recognition they get from that. So when all of that shifts, it can feel really disorienting. It can also become an invitation to do something different. My guest today, Greg Bro, found himself in that exact situation.
After losing his job last year, he was faced with a choice. Do I go back? Do I do the same thing again? Or do I take this moment to pursue something that I've always loved but kept on the back burner for Greg? That moment became a creative reawakening through coaching, daily experimentation, and a willingness to start from scratch.
He shifted his identity from design leader to children's book author, and that opened up an entirely new chapter of creativity and fulfillment that he never expected. We're gonna give you a behind-the-scenes view into what it's like going through coaching during a major career transition moment and what Greg has created out of it, and I think you're going to be amazed.
With that, I won't make you wait any longer. Let's dive into my conversation with Greg. So, take us back just for a moment to that point where you lost your job, and just for context for everyone else, you had spent over 20 years as a UX design leader. And so you really had this strong identity tied to that role and to that world of being in UX design.
So what was it like going through this moment and what kind of felt different?
Greg Bro:
Yeah. You know, it was pretty. It was pretty shattering in the moment that it happened. I think it wasn't exactly a surprise, you know, things had been challenging at work. I was trying to figure things out there, but it, it was hard. Because you know, you spend so much of your time. And energy at work, and you form all these connections, and you really attach yourself to the mission of the place that you're working at, uh, in the community, especially as a leader that you're helping to put together. And then having to say goodbye to that abruptly is really hard.
And, you know, you think about. Your own identity. You know, when you meet a new person, one of the first questions is usually like, what do you do? What is your job? And when suddenly that's taken away, there's a lot of inward soul searching of like, well, what am I? What do I do? And so I think initially coming out of losing my job and the kick to the ego and all the emotional stuff that you go through with that, you absolutely go through a lot of that questioning of like.
Who am I? What am I? What is my value, and what do I do now?
Kristiana Corona:
So I know for a lot of people who are maybe going through a similar transition that you went through, it's very easy to get stuck in that sort of downward spiral of all the feelings, right? And to get stuck on that question, who am I? So what was really the thing that helped you to start taking that sort of inward-focused energy and then making a shift towards, you know what, I'm gonna do something else outwards.
Greg Bro:
I think it was really important to reflect on the whole situation and take ownership of my own role in that situation. And what I did that I think worked well. Uh, what I could have done differently.
And maybe try to look at the positive parts of the situation. You know, I think being in the job that I was in, I was feeling a little disconnect with the mission and lack of motivation, and you know, my body was sending me some signals. I think a lot of times a human, their body will send them signals 'cause it's aware of something that the mind hasn't quite wrapped itself around.
And I was certainly getting a lot of those signals from my body, just in the energy level and ability to focus. But I think being able to. To separate from that situation and reflect on it and actually kind of recharge from some of the severe burnout that I was, uh, encountering at the time. It gave me the space to kinda reflect on all the ways that I was able to grow in that difficult moment and the things that I, you know, maybe not learn tactically, but things that I learned about myself.
I, I think the thing about last year was really getting attuned to. What my integrity is and how important it is for me to be in spaces that are incongruent with my integrity. So it really got me thinking about, okay, well if these are the lessons that I'm learning, what does that mean for the next step in this journey of mine?
And I think ultimately I landed in a place of, well, maybe I can do something a little bit different this time than I might, uh, in the past. In the past, you kinda look at the old standard, get my resume together, reach out to my network, look for a similar situation with a different logo over the, you know, entryway.
Uh, but this time I, I thought about it, and I'm thought about, well, if these things are important to you. Helping other people being creative. Storytelling, not being in a Zoom meeting all day, is another kind of Brady Bunch Square in the grid of faces. I thought about, well, what do I wanna build? What kind of space do I want to have a hand in crafting that is more congruent with my integrity?
Uh, that is a place that really reflects my values, and that led to the path that I'm on right now where I am creating more, and you know, certainly discovering more of what that path is as I'm walking down it. But. Initially stepping on the path was a pull of energy and value that led to it. As it became more defined, the more steps I took and the more stuff I did, it was really about following that initial pull of energy and value, uh, that got me on that path in the first place.
But I won't lie, there's absolutely the moments of the pity party and feeling sorry for yourself and the blame game, but at a certain point, you, there's nothing you can do about it. It's in the past. So you gotta ask yourself like, what can I control and take action on the things that you can control. And I, I certainly, you know, will have moments of regret and reflection on some of those things at my previous job, but at the end of the day, that's not serving you.
So it's important to like reflect on those things and feel the feels. Don't deny yourself that, you know, you don't wanna just spackle over something and walk past it and not allow yourself to kind of decipher your feelings around something. But at a certain point, you gotta move forward. You can't just be in spaces forever.
You gotta take the learning and grow from it. And. Find the right path for yourself.
Kristiana Corona:
I think one of the things I really love about working with you is that you're not afraid to sit with some of those things. So for example, in coaching, we might sit down and say, Hey, you know, this last week I haven't felt any momentum.
I feel like I'm really sitting in this place of self pity, or. Here are the things that I tried, but none of them worked. Or, you know, whatever those things are. And typically, when you're processing that stuff alone, a lot of times you just get down on yourself. But I think what I love about what we were able to talk about together is that you would bring those things, we would unpack them in kind of a neutral way, and just give yourself a different perspective or a different angle on those things.
And say to your point, what am I learning from this? What is this telling me about what's in integrity for me and what isn't, and what is useful now? Like what can I take forward with me? Would you be able to just share a little bit of like how that process felt for you kind of going through coaching when you were in those moments of struggle?
Greg Bro:
I think over the last couple years, coaching has been a huge unlock for me, and I think the unlock is realizing that all the things, all the plates that you might be spinning in, in a given moment, having a sounding board. To work through and talk through those different spinning plates is essential to making progress.
It's also important to have somebody who maybe isn't as emotionally invested. I'm an emotional person. I just am, whether I wanna admit it or not. And the emotional state that I'm in, or the energy state kind of determines how effectively I can actually spin those plates. And when things are tough. Those abilities are depleted.
It's so important to have somebody who can come in and just kind of settle you and decipher the information that's in front of you in a very logical, intentional way. And the thing about a coach is that over time they really have a clear sense of what your mission is. So they're able to like filter their, uh, questions and prompts through that lens to help you kind of pick through those things in a much more effective way.
So instead of like dwelling and sitting in that, you know, bad energy. For forever. They can help you kinda work through that in a super effective way and create some actions that just inevitably pull you out of that funk every single time. And I would say that like anybody who's going through some stuff, like that's the best time to have a coach.
'cause like you're probably struggling a little bit, the energy and motivation is probably not in surplus. And what better time to get somebody who can come in. Ask you the right question or help you look at something a little bit differently. I mean, I found it's just been so powerful, these moments where the camera angle has just shifted a couple degrees, and it completely changes how you think and feel and relate or connect to a situation.
I've had like so many conversations with you and other coaches where there's been a question or something in the conversation that just. I opened a completely different door in my brain that allowed me to like enter a space of like, oh my God, that's possible. Or, why didn't I think of that? Or I could do this, this, and that. And it's just, wow, it's so powerful.
Kristiana Corona:
I think, uh, you called out something really important too for other people where a lot of times people feel like they have to have their life together. To get a coach. Like you have this image of, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to this coach, and I'm gonna come with my 25 point to-do list of things that we're going to accomplish and we're going to just move forward a hundred percent of the time and check all the boxes.
Greg Bro:
Yeah.
Kristiana Corona:
But really honestly, most people who come to coaching and get a very successful outcome are people who come when it's messy. You're in the messy middle. You don't have it figured out. You're feeling stuck, you know, whatever it might be, it's okay. Like you don't have to have life planned out, and you don't have to know the answers.
In fact, it's almost better to not know the answers because then you can really sit with things and get curious together and figure out like what is possible for me in this next chapter.
Greg Bro:
Totally. Totally. And I, I think like a plus one on that. I think, I remember the first couple times that I met with a coach, I felt that pressure to come in with a, like a really clear, like, okay, I, I guess I gotta have this list.
Like what is my purpose? And you know, what do I want? Or do I wanna be in 20 years or five years? And. I think over time you kind of learn that you know exactly what you said. It's like, it's great to have somebody to work through those challenging moments with, to just kind of pick through the pieces and rebuild them into something new or a new approach.
That's been like the huge realization for me. I think about, you know, the couple years now that I've been in coaching and, and the shift in how I perceive it and how I engage with it compared to how I engage with it at the beginning, and it's just been like super powerful. I, I think there's just something beautiful about.
Asking the right question that completely reframes how another person thinks about something and then co-creating with them a path forward, like, holy cow. Like that's pretty, pretty incredible. And I think the beauty too about kind of working through some of that challenging stuff together is that it helps the coach understand you better.
It helps them understand your situation and just how you think about stuff so that they can be strategic in how they engage with you to be more effective. So I would encourage anybody who's in a space where they're working through some stuff, or there is like a lack of clarity there.
Get a coach, have a conversation, like what's the trouble of doing like one or two sessions just to see where it lands. I guarantee you that you're gonna probably realize. At least one or two things in those first sessions that you never would've thought of before that are gonna blow your mind so.
Kristiana Corona:
Yeah. Well, speaking of things that blow your mind, I was pretty mind blown by some of the realizations that you had when you were going through this process, and one of those things that you really had an aha moment about was leaning back into your creativity. So one of the things you know, we talk about a lot is as a leader, you are creative through other people a lot of times, but you personally had all this creative talent, and you have made animated short films.
You have been a doodler for basically your entire life. Drawing, illustrating, doing all of these things were part of who you were. It was always. Already part of the fabric of your life, but yet it had kind of been sitting on the back shelf for a while. So, can you talk about just that particular unlock and what made now the right moment to lean back into it?
Greg Bro:
I've been thinking about that a lot lately and I think like, you know, being able to get distance from my previous job really made me realize how much I was missing that and how I wasn't really allowing myself to express that fully. At work because I, I think that's one of a, I wouldn't say a differentiator, but it's like a really critical part of who I am as a person.
I mean, I've been creating things since I was a little kid. It's been like a part of who I am. 'Cause it's something I love to do. I was the kid in the classroom sitting quietly, doodling in a notebook or scribbling on the desk. And it was always like a really great way for me to kind of, oh. Engage with the world around me.
I was a really shy kid, so it was tough for me initially when I would meet other kids to talk 'cause I was so paralyzed by, you know, social anxiety or whatever thing I was dealing with at the time. But like art was a way to relax my brain and help me calm down enough to connect with others. And inevitably kids would come and like watch what I was drawing and that was like a really great kind of opening to connect with somebody and over time, like being in those spaces and doing, you know, something that brought me into that good energy and, and, and good place allowed me to be a lot more comfortable socializing with people.
Now, that's like one of my favorite things is connecting with other people and building connections and relationships, and it's been interesting how creativity and art, you know, when you are on the planet long enough, you, you have these moments where you kind of zoom out and look at the past and pull the meaning from your story. And I really have come to appreciate the value that creativity and art, you know, and the different forms that it showed up for me. It's taken me into these spaces of real connection and value.
I've made so many friends through my art and creativity, whether that's professionally or just through, you know, film festivals and different things like that. It's helped me, you know, kind of you. Get into situations that I wouldn't have gotten into before. I've been to film festivals before and met people that I might not have met before or professionally gotten to engage with, like really talented top-level designers or developers that do things that just blow my mind, and now I get to go into schools and talk to kids, and like they're just so so creative. You know, it's like
Kristiana Corona:
Mildly creative all the time.
Greg Bro:
So creative and just so naturally creative. It just kind of reminds you just what it feels like to be within the intensity of that level of creativity and free association. It makes me realize. How much I'd been missing it when I'm in those spaces.
You know, I've said this a couple times, I think like being around a kid and being creative with them is like running with somebody who's a little bit faster than you. The first couple blocks you're just like, oh, huffing and puffing in a little winded. And when you're being creative with a kid, they're just coming up with ideas like so fast.
You're just like, I gotta pick it up to keep up with their creativity. But inevitably in doing that, that expands your creative stamina as well. I always come away from those sessions feeling more creative and more able to associate ideas and connect things or reframe how I'm thinking about something in a new, unique way.
Uh, there's something that gets lost as we get into our lives in the structure of life, and you kinda do these things that are. Part of the growing up journey, you feel like you gotta pass these different tolls and in inevitably each toll just, I don't know, like reins you in a little bit, and how you think about the world and think about creativity.
Uh, and I've certainly felt that the last couple years where I've been really focused on my career. Uh, I'm a dad, so putting a lot of energy towards that 'cause my girls are the most important thing in the world to me. But inevitably in being in the, in the rat race, the meat grinder, if you're not.
Intentional about being creative, you can kinda lose that stamina for it, and it's been fun to kind of get back into the creative gym and get back into shape and feel the energy and joy that it brings to me. It just kind of builds this reservoir of joy in me that I hadn't been feeding for so long, and I think like rediscovering that, you know, it's probably like when you get into the gym after not doing it for a while, and you feel that energy surge.
You're like, why don't I do this more often? Like, I feel way better when I'm doing this. I think creativity is like that for me. Like when I'm making stuff, I just feel a piece and I don't know, my brain just works differently when I'm creating more. And it's fun to like, like really use that as a focus to do things that align more to things that are important to me and engage in spaces that are really important to me. 'cause you know, my kids are at the age that a lot of my content is focused on or, or geared towards. And it's fun to like, use something that I love doing, creating to engage in those spaces more effectively.
Kristiana Corona:
I wanna fill in a little bit of the story here for people that, that weren't along on the journey like I was.
Um, so you, you were wrestling with. Kind of, okay, what's my next step? You were thinking about what's it look like to go back to different jobs, but maybe what other things are possible for me? And you mentioned just casually mentioned, like, I'd really love to publish a children's book someday. But it was always sort of this far-off dream, kind of this thing like, oh, I'll do it when I have time in the future, and I've got everything figured out and you know, but I, I heard so much energy and excitement around that idea of doing a children's book.
And it was interesting. So as we had these coaching conversations, you would just keep coming back to that over and over again. But you're like, but I don't know how I would make it work. And I don't know how to publish a book and I've just. You drawn stuff. I've never actually done this process before.
Right? So there's a lot of unknowns, and there are a lot of things kind of like holding you back from getting started, but. I feel like one of the most critical things that you got out of coaching was the accountability to take action on something that you really wanted to do. So can you talk for just a moment about what was it that took it from being on the back shelf?
This thing that you just, you know, this nebulous idea to, okay, now I'm actually taking action, like now I'm taking action.
Greg Bro:
Now it's interesting. I think like writing a children's book has always been this thing that's sitting on the shelf of things that I want to do at some point in my life, right next to learning how to play a guitar.
You know, that one's still sitting there and probably maybe take that off the shelf when I'm 80. But this one, it felt like I was presented with this unique moment to actually put some time and energy towards that. So, I remember the day my daughter, uh, Alice, was homesick one day and she was laying on the couch.
Just kind of being a sick kid. Uh, bluey was on the TV and you know, I was kind of like processing my emotions from, I lost my job, you know, and just kind of had this thought about kind of being the right piece in the wrong puzzle and just something about that idea conjured up the idea of shapes and I just kind of thought of this character, this shape that was trying to figure out, well.
I'm not a circle, and I'm not a square, I'm not a triangle, but what am I, like, where do I fit in? And I, I think like something about that spoke to me. 'cause like shapes are so universal. Like kids, it's one of the first things kids like learn is what is a circle or a square or that kind of thing. So as Alice was laying there, and being a sick kid, I had got up my phone and opened up a Google doc and just started thumbing out a story, and it was rhyming and you know, I kind of just let it come outta me. And I think there was probably a little bit of therapy in there too as I was writing it. Um, but then it landed and I'm like, man, the, there's something there. I've written a lot of stuff before that I write, and then I never do anything with it.
It just sits on the shelf, or I just put it in a Google Doc and forget that I even wrote it. But something about this felt so real and raw. In the moment that I was in. Uh, so I, I actually shared it with a couple people after I wrote it, uh, just to like validate, 'cause sometimes it's hard creatively to judge your work, you know, I know I'm probably a little too hard on, on the quality of my work.
So sometimes it's helpful to have somebody else engage with it, to kind of allow you to separate a little bit. And the couple people that I shared it with had a real emotional reaction. And that to me was like an indicator, a cue that. Maybe this is the book, like that thing that's been sitting on your shelf forever.
You know, you've written, you've made a lot of stories, you've made a lot of cartoons and animated films. But like the Children book thing, I think the thing always holding me back was like, you put so much attached to so much pressure on what it would be, but this just felt right. And so I, I just followed that signal that I was given and polished up the story a little bit more, uh, took about a week.
I, you know, kind of worked through some of the rhythm and the rhyme of it and thought about the characters and then I. Got drawing and, and thought about how to like visualize a story like that. And there's a lot of just foundational stuff about making a book. Like, okay, I've made animated films, but like a book is different.
'cause when you're making a film, you're telling a story across like a timeline. So you're in control of the pace of things, the music, the camera angle. But you don't have all those tools in your tool belt when it's a book, 'cause the reader ultimately controls the pace of the book. How do you use the medium in a way that allows for them to focus on those key moments in a story?
Um, so part of it was kind of trying to think through my own storytelling sensibilities through the lens of this new medium. And so part of it was doing some of the UX process stuff, of building a prototype, checking it out. Like, I made a rough paper prototype of what the book looks like with all these like sick people on sketches, just to see what it felt like and look like.
And something tangible about that. My brain needed to see that. And then I took it from there, and I brought it into storyboards. You know, I've used storyboards for cartoons, but for a book, the storyboard was about the layouts and the page numbers and, and you know, what words go on what pages? And then it was about, okay, now I gotta actually make the art.
I gotta figure out what size do I make a book? Like all these kind of foundational book things that people who've probably made a bunch of books are just like, duh, of course. But when you. You do it the first time. Like anything, everything is new and fresh. Every mile marker along the path of that is a place where you gotta like go down the Google or ChatGPT funnel of like, what is this?
How do I do that? Like basic stuff. Um, but that's so fun. I love learning so much. So it was like hard. And confusing, especially those times where you just wanna like put the pedal to the metal and go to encounter a problem where you gotta learn a new thing. You're just like, oh no, I gotta figure that out.
But there's so many great resources and so the first book was just kind of working through that whole process, learning new things along the way, and getting to a point where, you know, I think of stories now. I'm on my, I just released my second book as almost like unclogging a pipe. And I, I think, like I, the, I have this visual of the story as I'm making it, of I know what the end is and I know what the beginning is and I gotta unclog all these things along the way so that the story can flow through that pipe.
And so I really had that visual pretty intensely in my head with the second book of like, pieces of it that felt right. But also moments that were kind of holding the story from flowing through to the end that I wanted to leave the reader with. 'Cause I, I think that's like super important to like really think about, what's that last page?
What's that last moment? What's that last feeling that you want somebody to leave the book with? And it's just been fun to like. Learn this storytelling craft and apply, you know, skills that I had picked up from the cartoon and the animation. And frankly, from the professional life, there's a lot of storytelling that comes into play in the corporate world, um, you know, in different ways.
And, you know, if you have audiences that you're connecting to different story beats that you're trying to hit. Information that you're trying to convey. I also think there's an emotional dimension of storytelling that's really important that maybe doesn't get the focus that it should in the corporate world, but like, you know, if you can make somebody feel something or really connect to the emotionality of a person that you're building a product for, something like that, that's pretty meaningful.
Because that feeling leads to empathy, which leads to understanding, which leads to everybody kind of coming from the same place. And that's, that's like a super beautiful thing.
Kristiana Corona: I was gonna say on the corporate storytelling side, I think it, you have showed up in many roles, and I've worked with you at different companies, but you've always had that theme of how can we do a better job telling our stories just in everyday meetings.
Like anytime we're pitching a new idea or talking about the importance of why we're working on a certain thing, there's always been that element of, well, how can we improve the storytelling here? The craft of getting the audience to truly connect to what we're doing, because sometimes there's money on the line, like you wanna get your idea funded, and other times you want them to feel the pain so that they care and they're like, yes, we need to solve this no matter what.
Like, we have to fix this for the user. And then just a myriad of different reasons why storytelling matters. But I love that that thread has always continued in small ways. And so it feels like to me, you've just been opening up the spigot on the storytelling aspect and how much of your life now flows in that direction.
So I also wanna call out. You learned so many things, like it was so fun to be on this journey with you because now not only were you learning about story beats and how do you do layouts and you know, what's it look like to craft the language and then also the visuals. You learned how to self-publish.
You learned how to get yourself out on Amazon so people could buy the book. Um, you built a website. You built all of these mechanisms and. You started to figure out where are the moments where now I can take this storytelling and turn it into something more? So I would love if you would just start talking about what happened after you launched that first book and parents and kids and schools started to see this material.
Greg Bro:
That's super powerful. I think. Initially, when you create anything, unless you're a super genius, you're just like thinking of the thing that you're making. So when I started making the book, I'm just thinking about the book and what that is and the theme of the book. But as I was creating it, as you do anything creative and start moving down that path of creation, inevitably it opens up.
Other doorways or opportunities in your mind of, of what something could be. And I think for me, as I was making this book, I thought about this world that I had been thinking about a lot and the other things that could be conveyed through shapes and storytelling. And I think like storytelling as this way of taking something that is really complicated.
But if you can tell a story or have a metaphor or something that can reframe it for a person, suddenly can take this really complicated thing and make it more accessible or understandable. That's kind of a powerful part of storytelling, and it really got me thinking about, well, kids are really. At a point where their brain is still developing.
They don't quite have all the body chemistry and mental development to fully understand and process the things that they're feeling. But they do connect with stories, and they do connect with what they feel, uh, when they engage with stories or different things. So it really got me thinking about how to use, you know, beyond the story that I was creating initially, uh, how might I use that?
Idea of storytelling and simplifying the complex to reflect different values and things that felt more congruent with that place that I wanted to build, that I had been thinking about, you know, when I was doing my reflection on the job that I had lost, but where do I want to go next? And it just got me thinking about.
This great opportunity to use some of the gifts that I've been giving, you know, with storytelling, and creativity to simplify or make accessible some of these more complicated emotional ideas and communicate them in a way that kids can. More intuitively engage with or creating a situation or a space where a parent or adult can have a conversation with them about belonging or big feelings.
You know, those are things that might be challenging to discuss, but when you can project that discussion on a shape, suddenly it's a little bit more accessible. There's something there that, a kind of conversation or, you know, just some deciphering that a parent or a kid can do together in that co-creation, uh, that might allow them to discuss some things that weren't possible before that kind of stuff.
So it's been really gratifying to see those things kind of open up as I've been on this creative journey and I'm still on it. So. As some things have taken shape, pun intended. You know, I, I think I've really started to like, uh, envision what the every Shape Emotional Literacy series could be and project out potential themes that I want to, you know, make.
Uh, part of the foundational initial chunk of books and then extending beyond that, but also material that can augment those things like activity books or, you know, certain kind of doodling frameworks or things that help, you know, not only extend the. Brand, but also give more granular tools to engage with some of the concepts that come through in the stories and things like that.
And I've always been a builder and a storyteller, and I think part of the fun of this journey is that I get to like satiate all those interests and learning. I love figuring out and tinkering and building. I wish I had it all figured out and the machine is together and just operating perfectly. Um, but it's one of those things where you're just the little rock hammer, Andy Dufrene kind of chipping away over time.
And it's important to realize, you know, those moments where you feel like you have. An unending to-do list of unfinished stuff that time is your friend like over, if you're consistent and over an expansive time, that consistency can move mountains. It really can because I've certainly had moments where I'm like, why?
Why aren't the book selling faster? Why am I not doing X, Y, Z? Why isn't this coming through? But then I. I force myself to zoom out and coaching helps with this too, but to zoom out and acknowledge the growth or the learnings that have come to play over a timeline. Uh, and then it just kind of be like, okay, I should actually like celebrate the growth that's happened here.
Uh, and also, you know, acknowledge that
Kristiana Corona:
I need to interject just for a moment so people know when you talk about zooming out and the timeframe we're talking about here, you release your first book in one month. Crazy. Like the pace at which you discovered and learned and built and, and figured out all of these things.
I mean, a month you had it done in a month and then after that, you know, you celebrated for about five minutes and you're like, okay, book two, I already have book two launch, you know, and then now you've launched book two and it's within a couple of months of the first one. Um, and I think what's been really remarkable.
For me to be along this journey with you is to just see the momentum that is naturally created by aligning to something you care about so much. So even though you've had to work really hard, and there's been some frustrating moments, the way that this just flows out of you, like I've never seen it before, you know, um, and so you, you make the first book and then that creates the emotional literacy series idea. And then you have the second book that's more focused on feelings. And then through that process you create this lovely website where people can find all of these things and then you start doing school visits.
And I wanna just pause on a moment. For on, on school visits because I think there's something extremely magical that has been happening there. And I want people to be able to get a sense of not only how this allows you to share your book and get the excitement and energy of the kids, but also some of those messages that you've been able to share about yourself and about like what, what is Okay. Uh, that they might be feeling too. So would you mind sharing a little bit about those experiences?
Greg Bro:
Yeah. The, the school visits were such an unexpected source of joy and energy at the beginning of this journey. You know, I remember this first school visit that I did, I think I was more nervous than any corporate presentation I've ever given.
You know, like, I'm just like picturing. Kids taking their shoes off and trying to throw them at my head 'cause they don't like me or something. But you just realize that kids are so curious, so curious, and they wanna know about every detail of everything. I mean, they're wanting to know like, how did you print it?
How did you make the cover did, how did you do this, that, and the other thing. It's been fun to like be in these different spaces because the more spaces you're in, like anything. You learn more and understand those spaces more deeply. So I think a thing that has kind of changed from when I first started doing school visits to now is understanding it's more than just promoting my book.
It's really this great opportunity to really engage in the themes of the book and have these conversations with kids, but also like learn what's on their mind. How can I communicate an idea with them in a way that resonates and connects with them because they give. You instant feedback and how they react.
Like kids, they wear their emotions on their sleeves. You know, if they're just like sitting there looking bored, they're bored. But if they're happy, they're gonna show you that they're happy. Like you're gonna feel the energy of that, you know? So it's been fun to like see that the story connect with them, but also to share in creativity and creating with them.
I think a big part of my school visits that's evolved over the time that I've been doing them is the role that. That actual doodling, art and creation plays in those moments. And I, I, you know, initially started doodling in sessions to show the kids how to draw the characters, 'cause I designed them so that kids can draw them their circles and squares and basic shapes.
I wanted kids to be able to like look at the book and be able to draw all the characters because they're really simple. But in doing that, you like. Kids engage with you when you're creating something. And the yellowed ideas are like different shapes that they wanna make into characters. And then inevitably, I'm like seeing that engagement, you know, made me reflect on different dueling exercises that I do myself when I, you know, need to come up with an idea or not feeling like super creative.
Uh, so one, you know, that I, that I used to do to just kinda give me something to doodle was combining two. Unlike things together and do a new thing. So I would take like an animal or something and then an object and squeeze them into something new so that that actually manifested into like an exercise that I've been doing at schools called Doodle Mash, where I have kids call out an animal and then they call out an object, and then I have to like mash them together into a new thing on the spot.
Kristiana Corona:
You draw the spot.
Greg Bro:
But it's so.
Kristiana Corona:
In front of everyone.
Greg Bro:
It's so fun. It's like a magic trick for kids though, you know? Yeah. Because they, they like, see, you know, somebody yells out giraffe and then another kid yells out hammer, and suddenly you're creating a hammerhead giraffe, and kids are like, woo.
And they, you feel like the excitement. 'cause now in their head they're thinking of like, what else is possible? Yeah. They're feeling that creative excitement and energy that I feel when I'm creating new stuff like the whole. Whole room is feeling that then and they're calling out different animals and different objects.
Um, there's just something really cool about being in the middle of that creative excitement that I think is awesome. And having a couple sessions where I stumbled into that got me thinking more about, well, what other. Doodling or creative exercises can I use to have fun but also engage in conversation.
So another one that I had been testing out that's been a lot of fun is called Doodle Rescue, where I have a volunteer come up, they draw just a random shape, and then I have to rescue it and go in and like make it something new. So they might scribble like this weird thing and then I'll make it into like a monster with horns or you know, something crazy.
But it's, you know, it's kind of the Bob Ross. Thing of like happy little accident. It's to show them that, you know, something might look like a mistake, but you can take that mistake and make it into something new and unique. There's something like really beautiful about that and so I'm excited to like continue kind of sharing the shapes with folks, and kids in classrooms, but also bringing in more of these doodling.
Exercises. I'm actually gonna be launching something soon on my site around the doodle lab with these different creative experiments that we engage with. And you know, I'm gonna have some materials that bring some of these exercises in different activity books. But man, they're super fun. So my hope is that I can share some of these so that parents and kids can get silly and do some of these things together.
But it's been funny to have some of these conversations with kids and see ideas where you're like. I would make a great like that character. That's super cool, and I'll call that out in the moment to them. Like somebody should write a story about that. If you write it, like send it to me. I'll read it like I wanna see it.
I just want them to show that like. They can come up with ideas like this, too. They can come up with stories, they can be creative. You know, there's a process to creativity. You know, people look at it as talent, and I guess there is part of that, but there also is a process and infrastructure behind the creativity that allows for it to flourish.
You know, some people probably have more of a propensity to it than others. You also need to work at it, and you need the right systems in place to allow you to express it consistently and effectively. And I think that's what some of these doodling exercises are, and I hope that connects with kids, but I also hope that it connects with like other creative people.
You know, I like do, I'm in my forties. Like I would, I would love a book with just different exercises and things like this and get a kick out of it. So. Yeah.
Kristiana Corona:
I'm sure there are going to be a lot of people who are like, I wanna get my hands on a copy of that, because there's always offsites, there's, you know, events or, or things.
You're trying to brainstorm something new and you're like, Ugh, I've done all the icebreakers out there. Well have you, you know, done the doodle lab. One other topic I wanna hit on real quick while we're talking about school visits is just this idea of ADHD and how ADHD. Like being diagnosed with ADHD later in life.
Like you didn't know this about yourself, but you just knew that there was something really calming that could focus you when you were doodling or drawing that helped you to be successful in life and. You have been able to share that story with these kids and you told me about like the reactions in the room are like, oh my gosh, I have a DHD too.
Like, look at what you can do, you know, and how that sort of inspired them to think about what's possible for them. So can you just talk for a moment about like the importance of understanding the connection with ADHD and like how you're using that now as you're starting to create these new resources?
Greg Bro:
Yeah. Yeah. It, it's been like fun to. Share that with kids, 'cause it helps to normalize that. I found out, you know, like you said, pretty late in life that I have a DHD and it was kind of this moment where I refiled a lot of my past through that knowledge and understood certain moments a lot more clearly.
With knowing that and learning more about A DHD, it helped me like really appreciate the role that. Drawing and doodling played for me because I realized that it not only was a way to express things creatively or process, but it also relaxed my mind and slowed things down so that I could listen better in class, so that I could pay attention better in meetings and actually kind of consume the information and retain it.
Because otherwise my mind would just be racing and I, I wouldn't be able to like focus in a way that I can when I'm doodling. It just like brings me to this really relaxing. Place. And so I, I made a point to talk about that in these sessions and like talk about A DHD and like what it's like, you know, I've heard it described as you're in a room with all the windows open and it's just hard to focus, but.
Drawing or doing something like that can help to close some of those windows for you so that you can focus just a little bit more effectively and things are a little bit more calm. Uh, I think like talking about that and describing it in that way for kids, I've seen a lot of like, oh, that's me, or I do that.
Or giving them a moment of understanding that I didn't have when I was that age, 'cause I didn't know that I had a DHD. But there's that recognition there that allows them to like think about it and not. Think about it as a bad thing. Because I think there's probably a way that kids maybe demonize or think about a DHD as a bad thing or a flaw, but it's not.
It's just part of who they are. Their brain works a little bit differently. You know, that flaw that maybe makes it hard to focus might allow them to think about things in a different way or access a level of creativity that comes a little bit more natural to them, 'cause their brain works different.
Sure. It's hard to focus, but that doesn't mean. That can't be used in other realms of your life. Uh, so it's been like really beautiful to see the physical reaction that kids have when I talk about that, or even having a kid after us talk, come up to me and just say like, I draw, like it does that for me and like verbalize that.
Like it really means so much to me to see that and to. Have them feel comfortable enough to express that in that moment because I, I don't know if I would've been able to do that as a kid, but like to come up and be like, yeah, I have trouble focusing, but I do this thing and it helps me listen better.
You know, that kind of thing. I don't know. There's something like really powerful and wonderful about that.
Kristiana Corona:
I think there's so many layers of beautiful things that are emerging here for you and for these kids. Like you visit schools and you talk to kids from like kindergarten through fifth grade, right?
And you're also starting to go to other places like hospitals or bookstores or libraries, things like that. So I think there's endless opportunities for this story to come alive. And what I think is also really amazing is just the. Like the way that you have taken this small idea, the seed of an idea, and just allowed it to grow into what it's today and where it'll probably go.
I know you're thinking about creating lots of books like there's, there's no end to this Shape universe or to some of the emotional literacy themes that you can go into. And so I look back at where you were just literally a few months ago and where you are today, and I'm still in shock about. It. It's like night and day.
What is possible when you are leaning into something that really aligns to what you care about and like the progress you're able to make in such a short amount of time. I mean, it's just remarkable. So I wanna take a moment and celebrate that.
reg Bro:
I appreciate that. Yeah. I think when something's like aligned to your purpose, you just naturally have more energy.
To put towards it than you might otherwise. And I think I've seen that in the output of material related to that. Like, you know, I think the floodgates really opened when I started to see the potential of this and the way that it, the value that it brought into spaces that I care very deeply about.
It really was like a damn breaking and the flood of ideas. I've got like 35 books in every shape series. Kind of in my head, kind of like there, but also other stuff like even, you know, engaging with slightly older kids, you start to think about like, okay, what could be some maybe more, you know, kinda younger or fourth, fifth grade range material that I could create that maybe isn't shapes but a little bit more sophisticated storytelling, but still expresses some of these core values and themes in a way that connects with them.
Kristiana Corona:
So, um. As we kind of zoom out on this story a little bit and like bring it back to what. Others might be going through. What is something that's really important, like as you thought about your identity? So before it was a little scary or challenging to think about, like, ooh, I don't know if I could call myself a children's book author.
Okay, so now you are fully all in, you are doing this children's book thing. Like how does it feel to have that identity shift actually happening?
Greg Bro:
I guess I don't think of it as much as an, an identity shift. 'cause I think thematically there's a lot of things that are, have been a part of my entire journey.
There's a label on it, but I feel like I've always been a storyteller, a creator, a tiner, and you can put whatever label you want on it, but I think the gasoline on this creative fire has been its connection to a purpose. It isn't just. For the sake of making something. It's to impact spaces that matter to me at a time where I think these things are like of the utmost important emotional literacy, emotional intelligence.
If kids can start thinking about those things, that's. Better for our world. We need more emotionally intelligent adults. You know, we need people who are okay kind of working through their problems and acknowledging flaws and having empathy. And I think this journey has put me in a space that's helped me.
I don't know, like connect to that purpose in a way that I don't think I've made anything before that's been activated quite like that.
Kristiana Corona:
As you think about this identity growth that has happened for you and how you have gone from being a design leader to now being a children's book author to, who knows what else you'll be, what would you tell someone else who's maybe kind of thinking about making a move but they're just not sure if they can do it?
Greg Bro:
I get it. I've been in that position before too, and it's hard, especially when you've got skin in the game, bills to pay. It's not just as easy to like pull the ejector, you know, push the ejector button and go your way. But I think it is important to think about what is important to you and your own integrity.
Uh, what are your values, and be, have an honest conversation about yourself to decipher if the place you're in is. Congruent with that, aligned to that, or if another place or another mission would be more connected to who you are and the kind of impact that you wanna have in the world, how are you gonna measure that?
If you're only looking at the paycheck and the amount you're getting on that, it's important. Is that the most important thing? I think the beauty about like digging into who you are and what your value system is, it helps you think of more metrics beyond the paycheck or the cool job title. Not to say those things aren't important.
I get it. Like I've been in the corporate world, I get it, and it's an exciting place to be, but there's also an importance in understanding who you are and the impact that you wanna have on the world. And I think in going through that process. You're gonna have some thoughts and make some discoveries, uh, that might help shape the path that you want to go on next.
So, I won't attempt to prescribe, you know, like do this exactly this 'cause everybody's so uniquely different. But I do think it is important to like, understand what's important to you so that you can start figuring out what that path forward looks like for you.
Kristiana Corona:
And I think, um, one of the ways that you were able to do that is by having these small experiments and by sitting in reflection. And so if someone feels uncomfortable sitting in reflection or they're like, I don't know what questions to ask myself, uh, I, all I'm doing is sitting here feeling bad or confused or stuck or whatever. You know, finding a thought partner and really doing that exercise together.
And also I think. From an experimentation standpoint, like especially when you think about A DHD, you've always told me the accountability is so important. Like, how do I have constant accountability, uh, whether that's meeting every week or every two weeks, or whatever that looks like, or in between meetings, how am I holding myself accountable to I wanna get X, y, z done by this date?
Here are the things that I need to do that, and some of those might be, I wanna try. And see if I can learn something here, or I wanna try having a conversation in a different direction that I haven't done before, or I want to literally make a draft of a book in a week, whatever that goal must be. Having an accountability partner along with you on that journey to say, you know, how is that going?
What's working well for you? Where are you getting stuck? What might we do differently to unblock that? And so then the men momentum continues. And like you said, if you're trying to unclog that pipe, like what is it that's really working to do that so that you get the maximum flow of creativity and energy and joy in whatever it is that you're doing.
And so I think that the metaphor of being stuck and unstuck is really, really relevant here, especially for you.
Greg Bro:
Yeah, no, that's so true. And I, I think like, uh, I'm in this moment where the floodgates have opened, but I think the things coming through that, you know, broken floodgate with A DHD now, those are more things to distract me, you know?
So I need like an accountability coach or strong systems to have be the gravitational pull that pulls me back to the priority stuff. 'cause there's a lot of ideas that I have and fun things that could be a part of how I'm. I my time, but if time is my currency that I choose to invest in something, I need to make sure that I'm investing it in the most important stuff.
And having somebody to connect with to work through that and kind of confirm that I'm focused on the right stuff is absolutely critical. Uh, yeah, it's super important.
Kristiana Corona:
All right, so if people wanna learn more about you, I know first of all they could go and pick up a copy of both of your books. Mm-hmm. So Every Shape has a place, which is your first book, and the second book, which is Every Shape has a Feeling, and I know they can go pick 'em up on on Amazon, but you also have something really cool on your website, bruteoptimism.com. You wanna talk about what they can get there.
Greg Bro:
Yeah, so you can pick up either book, uh, signed, if you pay a little extra, I'll draw a really cool picture in there for you. Um, but then I'm even offering the opportunity to get original artwork. I'm doing a bunch of, uh, illustrations of characters and different things that, you know, if you're interested, you can pay a little bit extra and do that.
I'm also gonna be launching something that I'm calling the Doodle lab. Uh, on brood optimism.com, and that's gonna be a centralized place to start having some of these different doodling exercises and worksheets that people can download and engage with. Uh, I'm also working on some activity books related to each book in the series.
So I'm currently working on one related to Feelings, the second book, and there's some parts of that will be accessible through the Doodle lab. So if you're looking for me, brood optimism.com, or you can follow me on Instagram and if you are a teacher or know somebody at a school, invite me. I do remote visits and would love to connect with as many people as possible.
Um, so if this, any of this resonates or connect with you, buy a book, reach out to me, uh, and I'd love to talk.
Kristiana Corona:
And then also you're based in Minnesota and so anyone that is in a driving range within Minnesota, you're willing to actually come to their school Right. And, uh, to do a live session, which is really, really cool.
Greg Bro:
Yeah, if you own a helicopter, maybe we can, uh, you know, we can increase that radius a little bit, but barring that, we'll do remote visits.
Kristiana Corona:
I love it. Well, thank you so much for taking time to come on and just tell your story and you know, share a little bit of advice for people because I know that it can be a scary prospect to change your thinking or try something new, but I love what you've been able to unleash within yourself and also the impact that you're starting to create by the work that you're doing that is so aligned.
Like all those kids, all those schools, all the people who are touched by your work. Like I know my. Kids are loving your book. Um, so many laughs, so many giggles. And it's really positive and helps them feel empowered and seen. And so I would just encourage everyone to go grab copies of the book for sure.
So thank you for being here. It's always a pleasure.
Greg Bro:
Yeah. Ditto. Thanks so much for having me on.
Kristiana Corona:
If this episode resonated, go ahead, subscribe so you never miss another episode. You can [email protected] slash subscribe. Leave us a review. Let us know how we're doing, and please share this with other leaders in your life that need to hear these messages.
As always, keep showing up. Keep doing the work that matters and keep leading like you're worthy to lead because you are. We'll see you next time.
